I do not have a "Main" I want to gear all jobs, change weekly gatings?

[programcanaan]

Don't like weekly restrictions? Make an Alt

[Snow_Princess]

I haven't read through this thread but I do feel like these systems were taken from games that only have one job and applied to ffxiv that supposedly encourages you to have one character but at the same time punishes you for doing so.

On top of that leveling alts is a painful process due to the MSQ

Introducing a better system that fits FFXIV would be better for everyone.

Yep that is how I feel. The system is out of place in this game. They said they took a lot of stuff inspired by wow.. but wow makes it easy to level alts, not be MSQ gated, so the one job currency system does not fit in this game like it would in wow.

Don't like weekly restrictions? Make an Alt

Been addressed repeatedly. Remove MSQ gating without buying a potion then and ill be fine.

-snip-

We understand you do not like or want change, so can you try to add more meaningful arguments? You are also confusing my stances and what I saw as well, and you done so several times.

For a comparison example, when people mentioned retainer and inventory space, Yoshida specifically stated the vast majority only use two retainers, which is why they didn't prioritize it for such a long time. Granted, there is a cost involved, however the point remains.

Yeah right, they need to drop off alts for that statistic, and people with 1 job at 70 in general. Ofc people with 1 job at 70 will not have space problems.
I like to see where this was said though, got a cite?

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

This post is off the point discussion completely, the only thing this explains is you do not want to have a meaningful discussion. We are here to suggest improvements to the game, not bite another poster's head off because you dislike change.

Yet it's the same point you've been repeating through out this thread.
Get a better reason than "I have multiple jobs" to remove the cap and I will consider it.
If that's your only card in order for that to happen, you have to be all 3 roles on the same work (dungeons).
Do you understand that you've been misleading your own thread so far?

[programcanaan]

Trust me I wish it was easier but for now it is what it is. There are lots of other things I'd like for my alts mounts, minions, etc. It goes on and on.

[Snow_Princess]

Right here:


I hate the time gating to one job, what if i pick wrong? what if I pick MCH/BLM/SMN? im screwed. At the begining I stated I did not like the caps limiting to one job for exactly this reason, and why I can't pick what to invest in as far as my time gated gear.

[Shurrikhan]

The average player doesn't have multiple characters for raiding. Yes, you can exploit this loophole, but only a small minority do. For a comparison example, when people mentioned retainer and inventory space, Yoshida specifically stated the vast majority only use two retainers, which is why they didn't prioritize it for such a long time. Granted, there is a cost involved, however the point remains. If few people exploit the loophole, whether due to laziness, money or contentment, it's existence is irrelevant. So why would people grind on a single character if they won't level a separate? Accessibility. They don't have to slog through the lengthily MSQ and remind themselves to log into it consistently. You aren't wrong in the sense they could... but they haven't. On the other hand, people were grinding Verity week one.

Fair enough. Granted that MSQ grants experience across its entirety, enough even to outperform the armory bonus after 61. It's probably the disgust of listening to the shit more than once, and regathering all one's aether currents, etc., more than the actual time spent. Which... doesn't bode well.

I'd likely still have 3 characters going if not for one simple thing: I don't like the other two as much, character-wise, as I used to. I like this one. I want to just play this one. And so there went the ability to fully gear 3 gear sets at once. Which then becomes 6 and eventually all 7 with time over a given tier, before resetting. Now I get the one, which I have to split over the largest roles (MNK/SAM only because I didn't want to play casters or ranged this time, and tanks and healers).

Again, though, even if that accessibility and just the fact that people have at this point been sort of habit-trapped into all-in-one characters by this point would open up massive potential for quick but finite grinding, I still don't think that fear warrants the limitations we face now for having placed all jobs on one character. Maybe there's an ideal balance point. But I'd rather caution towards consistency in concept, cutting out that design hypocrisy, than being consistent to the formula thus far.

Either way this isn't likely to happen with the system currently set in place. Just imagine how clunky that would look, with Creation Tomes of Striking, Maiming, Scouting, Aiming, Fending, Healing, and Casting. It would look horrendous. No, this would have to be design philosophy of something new, that can make it work so people don't feel any more like they have to grind away at tomestones, tombstones, or whatever any more than they do not—hopefully less. They should feel more encouraged and able to play the game how they want and for want of just playing the game. I just really think that when we move towards that system, alt-friendliness shouldn't be limited to multi-character setups.

How is it an alternative when it's the same ilvl everyone has already been grinding for nearly four months? You acknowledge upwards of eleven jobs could be fully geared before 4.1 releases, yes? They would be ilvl 330, the same ilvl Ivalice will drop. Therefore, it's no longer an alternative because everyone will already have said ilvl. Instead, people only run it for the tomestone upgrade not the loot.

A BiS alternative would have to be 340, competing with the augmented and Savage gear. And ideally, you'd want it to be upgradable with the next introduction of currency to whatever the new weekly cap gear would be. I'm sorry, I totally lost track of where I had gone into which details. That is totally on me. I've been jumping down your throat so at least I should not have assumed that my "alternative" would be entrusted mutatis mutandis. (former typo)

Currently, I have to continuously run dungeons if I want Cassandra to have full tomestone gear on multiple jobs. I'll continue to do this well into 4.1 unless I level a separate character. As I haven't and probably won't, at least not for a long while, I'll queue into content consistently enough. With your proposal, I wouldn't since by 4.1, I'll have all the jobs I care about finished.

Yes, to be an alternative, it would have to be a sidegrade for the highest ilvls thus far, and ideally a side-option for beginning the next tier. That means a buff to casual raid gear. That's what I meant by it being an increase to gearing rates, but I totally left out the actual numbers and... all that is important.

(Likewise if you wanted Omega normal to keep being run after its served its purpose as step-stone gear, that gear too would need to be improvable to Creation levels, and/or creation tome farming for alts just a side-effect of grabbing that intermittent gear—i.e. it would have to be a damn good way to get Creation, and it actually probably would deserve guaranteed loot at about the time the cap is removed (often counterintuitively increasing the time it takes to get anything from any turn unless really lucky in one's rolls).

Basically, my perspective on the whole issue is the devs haven't made any adjustments because not enough people have either exploited their restrictions or they don't have an issue with them. Keep in mind, forums make up a very small portion of any game's community.

Yeah, that's gotta be it. It just feels immensely hypocritical and counter-intuitive to me. in other words, it hits me right in the trigger button. And I know a lot admittedly small enough group of people to be wholly susceptible to sampling bias of people who have felt the same.

I'll admit though, there should be some sort of poll or questionnaire given to players who unsub. That might help give the devs ideas if certain systems aren't working.

I unsubbed a few days back. The rationale options, as far as I can recall, were alike to "I don't enjoy playing anymore," "I don't have anyone to play with," "I don't have the time to play," and a couple other standard-fare ones.

Regardless, my defense of the system doesn't mean I like it. Frankly, I'm indifferent. I haven't had problems joining PFs or obtaining enough gear on Cassie for it to ever present an issue. That being said, I won't argue it doesn't get repetitive.

In truth, I'm the same way. For instance, I appreciate gating in that I'm not expected, therefore, to put in as many mindnumbing hours. People often think it holds us back, but all it really does imo is give a more level playing field from week to week for competitive players (progression players and record-breakers), and reduced the portion of our time spent in preparation for the things we play more for their inherent enjoyment (such as raiding, comparatively speaking, and varying from person to person), all while keeping a larger portion of the population useful to you. Those are all really good things...

It's literally just the inconsistency there that gets me on principle. Its really a fairly separate issue for me, as passionate as I get about it. Ideally, there are a lot of ways I'd like to see small changes have significant effects to the game. I'd like to see a greater sense of consistent planning—something less tiered, more continuous—for progression, for catch-up mechanics, for alt-gearing, for example. But a lot of the fundamentals are more or less fine, apart from the very basic issue of the primary spenders of our game-time (e.g. Expert dungeons) aren't particularly fun in themselves, while we could be having a lot of fun even just meeting the basic everyday efforts of the game—it just feels like the carrot-and-stick is presumed sufficient, which may be symptomatic of the biggest problem I see with general design. 'Virtual' content. And not the best disguised, accessible, or reiterative form at that. I mean, WoW can often give us the exact same instance in a way that feels more exciting across two iterations (challenge levels) than two entirely separate Expert dungeons may feel here.

Well I guess I am not shocked you missed replying to this your reply to the quoted is after I said this, however I have a big issue with the argument of "give a more level playing field from week to week for competitive players (progression players and record-breakers)"

I do mean "more" here in solely a comparative, not resultative, sense. It does not account for access to omnicrafters, to money, or to time. But it does at least prevent people from feeling obliged to grind ceaselessly just to be the best they can be before they even step foot in the place. You so obviously can't get out of the learning process by pre-grinding it that you won't try (save insofar as grabbing your tome gear first if it's a spending week). And therefore you don't burn yourself out as badly just setting up for it.

[Krotoan]

Right here:


I hate the time gating to one job, what if i pick wrong? what if I pick MCH/BLM/SMN? im screwed. At the begining I stated I did not like the caps limiting to one job for exactly this reason, and why I can't pick what to invest in as far as my time gated gear.

apologies for not wanting to wade through the rest of the thread for an answer.. but what is that table? party composition rates?

Why is it necessary for you to cap out your gear for you to find out what you like to play? You can get all your classes to an acceptable ilevel to play all content with no restrictions. I really don't get who is restricting you to one job other than yourself. We still have 2 weeks before you have to start spending creation tomes and you NEVER have to turn in your omega drops till you want to.

I am well informed you feel only working towards one MAIN job is not what you want, why are you having such a hard time deciding which one you like?

I don't feel you can pick "wrong" if you're playing the job you like unless your static mates are ... well.. jerks.

[Snow_Princess]

In truth, I'm the same way. For instance, I appreciate gating in that I'm not expected, therefore, to put in as many mindnumbing hours. People often think it holds us back, but all it really does imo is give a more level playing field from week to week for competitive players (progression players and record-breakers), and reduced the portion of our time spent in preparation for the things we play more for their inherent enjoyment (such as raiding, comparatively speaking, and varying from person to person), all while keepinga larger portion of the population useful to you. Those are all really good things...

Well I guess I am not shocked you missed replying to this your reply to the quoted is after I said this, however I have a big issue with the argument of "ive a more level playing field from week to week for competitive players (progression players and record-breakers)"

Incorrect, if you are going to run on the premise that you can play all jobs on one character, then they all need equal access. The current system does not allow that, and the easier they make exp gain, the more people this will bother. If you have to make an alt to have equal access, it violates the advertised premise. Also the forumla tends to go, even before you have 330 now in all slots they release a new 450 cap, so it makes you feel you are always behind, you can only gear 1 job, it should not be locking you in 1 job. You keep running on the fear that whatever new system people propose will break the game too much. How is allowing me gear more then one job in current ilevel ruin anything? What if balance changes or changes to the job (currently I dislike blm, the job I used to sink gear in first in HW) so now I am at a standstill hording everything because I do not know what to invest that kind of time gating into. This is not fair to me. Did you ever think salavge statics does not tend to have people change jobs because of the gear time gates? Though I did meet a salavge SAM, having 2-340 gear, leveling nin for his static, because he said they would benefit from NIN more and have 2 or 3 340s for that as well. Their sam also had a 330 weapon.

OHHHHHHHHHH!!! also.. if the premise is making time gates to prevent hard cores having too much more then causal, right now casual is cap at pretty much i320, having maybe 1-4 330 depending what they invest in. The person I met above easily eclipses a "casual" so I find that argument not founded at this point.

Also world first was not even using 330 gear, it is max penta melding the crafted gear. So they max penta meld crafted gear get 340 asap then what? So the reality is you can't keep up with Salavge raiders if you are not one, along being stuck on 1 job while salvage raiders are more flexible with gearing 1 or even 2 jobs where both jobs are better geared then someone single job gearing off any non salvage content. So not only is it not achieving this argument, but it is time gating of someone trying to gear more then one job.

apologies for not wanting to wade through the rest of the thread for an answer.. but what is that table? party composition rates?

Why is it necessary for you to cap out your gear for you to find out what you like to play? You can get all your classes to an acceptable ilevel to play all content with no restrictions. I really don't get who is restricting you to one job other than yourself. We still have 2 weeks before you have to start spending creation tomes and you NEVER have to turn in your omega drops till you want to.

I am well informed you feel only working towards one MAIN job is not what you want, why are you having such a hard time deciding which one you like?

I don't feel you can pick "wrong" if you're playing the job you like unless your static mates are ... well.. jerks.

I want max performance with slight OCD issues. I want to make sure I am wanted, and if I understand correctly, healers are more flexible with buying up current MB gear, then penta melding it while vit for the first slot for the right. DPS on the other hand, or tank, needs to mix gear from different sources to avoid the unwanted secondary. Top this off with , "just dump the best on blm and go from there " is no longer something I want to do because I do not like the 12 sec upkeep. With server tics and lag screwing you even more then before, and you can't even meld a few piety to try offset it, very frustrating. I can't even kill the highest ex trial dummy consistently with 310 gear, why would i continue to invest in it with such low performance? My record is like 4 sec left when it should be 20-30 UGH!

[savageink]

I really don't get this thread at all. you can queue for anything up to Omega savage 1 with 310 verity gear. are you saying the only way you can tell if you like a job is being fully geared on 1 of 3 iLvl restricted savage difficulty raids? If you are fully geared on all your classes what do you have left to do?

This totally screams "I want it all and I want it now." because everybody knows they do it on purpose to drag a little more life out of the content between patches. It would be like complaining about the 4.0 relic grind the day after it's released. It's not supposed to be easy because it's still relevant gear.

[Nezerius]

Right here:


I hate the time gating to one job, what if i pick wrong? what if I pick MCH/BLM/SMN? im screwed.

You are screwed because people who aren't you are clearing content in gear that is lower than what you're asking for (minus the few Genji/Creation pieces that they've managed to obtain)?
You do know that most of those people are using crafted gear, right?