Who else is bored? Same Content and Formula...Was SB a waste of money?

[Snow_Princess]

So you wouldn't care about queueing into a game and being destroyed with no chance to fight back because you don't have time to play all day everyday? That's kinda what you're asking for here.

... you can't even go a sentence contradicting yourself. First and foremost, tomestones are not comparable because they are restricted. You can play as little as two hours or twenty each week and you'll cap, provided you choose the right content. On the chance you do miss a week(s) along the way, you'll have alternative options through Savage raiding and odd numbered patches. The person I quoted cites a system where you'll never catch up unless the person ahead of you stops grinding. They are able to play longer and due to unrestricted progression will always be ahead of you. Currently, someone can be more skilled but XIV prevents any one player from obtaining a long term advantage over another. It advertises itself on that very premise. Most games do because yes, people do care. Overwatch wouldn't be as insanely popular if someone who started a year ago could trounce everyone by virtue of having played longer and nothing else. That is one of the reasons For Honor flopped. Excluding its horrendous servers, someone who played longer or sent more money would utterly destroy everyone else. Very few people find that fun.

And you are wrong because once you have the best.. that is it? People will get whatever they need on their own time. I talk often in DF, read the novice chat and so on. People do not care about gear at all unless it is some ilevel gate, gating them from access. Most people do not care about "being destroyed", and the thing is, PvP is not gear dependent at all. Everyone has the same, regardless of gear, regardless if level 30 or level 70.

The only time gear is ever discussed is when someone has some off the wall extreme low level gear where it is notable by HP/ eyeballing low performance. I see more harassment over DPS values then the gear itself (because the gear is not the cause) like warriors doing more DPS then DPS classes, or healers pre SB (No idea if this is a thing now, I think the game is changed too much to give the opportunity, but I have not seen it.)

Overwatch is not a MNO, and I have no clue on that game regardless, so off the point. People may care in that game, I do not know, but people do not care in this one, past how hard or easy it is to access something (if you where unlucky early HW, it was hard to continue the MSQ for example, I can see SB will not share the same problems, because the job quest line gives you 290 gear while you get 288 gear guaranteed to you as drops, once a run, something that did not happen trying to break that i150 line back then. Slowing access does nothing other then frustrates those that care more about their performance, the average player of FFXIV does not, unless it is salvage. I met ONE person asking another for parse numbers in a lore farm, and I was changing between BLM and WHM trying to figure out what would move runs the fastest. The person was trying but unlikely did not know rotations or something. In the end their healer could not dps as well as I could and their DPS could not DPS as much as my BLM. I think I just continued the farm as WHM since my healer DPS was much better then near zero. Gear was not a factor and it rarely is when people have discuessions like this in DFs. THe only other time gear has somewhat an impact outsude exteme undergearing is when the tank is at min ilevel entry while trying to hold off hate of BIS DPS. It is possable but you really need to know what you are doing, and what place and time this happens in also matter. For example, a 290 tank would have more problems now if they face a mix of 320/330/340 (not sure what is highest possible) then compared a 290 tank vs 314~ ish dps back before 4.05

In those situations, there was never deweling on the gear itself, it was either the tank apologizing on the performance (most min level entry tanks are not exerts at play to being with, since they tend to be newer to be in that situation to begin with) or they are toxic and demand the DPS to hold back. Once I was with a decent geared tank kicked out by a premade duo over "pressing too much buttons" when I would steal hate 10 seconds after my quelling opener. I think you have a personal issue with people "gearing too fast" vs what the average player feels. If you want to go back to level 50, 2.0, i came in that game late and was kicked repeatly when I keep saying you need to make smaller pulls because I do not over gear (120) the place yet. Even then they still expected me to perform like I had GATED TIME GEAR, even though I couldn't from not be 50 long enough. That is the only time I seen a form of mocking of gear, along with seeing i270 required in pfs for simple things in HW.

People in this game for the most part only care about gear ilevel for access, they do not care if someone has more then them, or the rate they do it as far as gear, so based playing since this game 2.0 opening and all the times I stepped in the duty finder, talking to people, I find your premise false. People care about having minions, glam, and mounts more then having the best ilevel gear along with how to meld it.

I just had this convo with someone:
(shout) To be fair some of the XI stuff would be a nice addition to this game
Me (tell): your suggesting this game needs more content like ffxi offered many things to do yes?
(tell reply)> and a higher challenge rfor endgame serious raids yes

There isn't enough content in this game.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

All the loot boxes give in OW is glamour, that's it. And just going to point it out, but your anecdote is just further proof that uncapping tomes is the worst thing they can do. You think it was bad then? Imagine how bad it would be and how quickly now if tomes weren't reasonably gated.

[Snow_Princess]

All the loot boxes give in OW is glamour, that's it. And just going to point it out, but your anecdote is just further proof that uncapping tomes is the worst thing they can do. You think it was bad then? Imagine how bad it would be and how quickly now if tomes weren't reasonably gated.

You defeat your own argument, if it was not capped, people could gear up on their own time, and this would prevent the harassment I got in 2.0, (for over 1 month, thanks to rng and time gating, ugh glad they built more barriers to lower mega pull harassment for newer healers) and the headache in 3.0 trying to explain people you do not need 270 gear for lights and I had to mix my blm and whm gear to enter the PF to talk to them.

But this is slightly off the point, main point is we need something different, we need a different system, we need a system that allows a "casual" to "keep up" with the hardcore (assuming this is even an issue, once someone has the in a day who care if it takes someone a month? kinda weird idea esp when people don't care about ilevels outside having access to things in this game) while said hardcore can be gated on job a and freely to gear job B (weather be max already and simply can't anymore) while keeping that max gear relevant for a while and giving people to do. You can't out date gear (Body gear from delta normal) before people have a chance to obtain it. People are tired of the 450 week treadmill, as this thread was made and mine as well.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You defeat your own argument, if it was not capped, people could gear up on their own time,

Some would, most would not. Verity stands proof of that as you'll be hard pressed to find people who didn't have their preferred jobs completely geared within the first few weeks. Furthermore, if Creation tomes were uncapped, PF groups would simply bump up the ilvl requirement. Savage pugs typically set an ilvl restriction between 316-325. You know what that means? You need crafted, Omega normal or Creation to join those parties. Do you honestly believe that ilvl demand wouldn't be scaled upwards if the base level were 330? Therefore, you'd have to gear immediately if you wanted to queue into Savage without a pre-arranged static. What about non-raiding content? Who cares? As has been repeated ad nauseam, everything above 310 is overkill for non-Savage content. Your entire argument hinges on an ilvl nothing requires you to have. Only Savage encourages it due to community preference to kill things fast.

You have also continuously ignored how uncapped Creation tomes renders half the content released devoid of any incentive. People don't run dungeons for the gear drops, they do it for Verity and Creation because it's better. Omega normal, Ivalice and crafted gear would all be worthless since it's weaker than the now uncapped Creation tomes. If the devs ever made such a change, they would have to adjust everything. That a system may look like the following:

- Creation tomestones ilvl reduced to 320; uncapped
- Crafted gear unchanged (superior by virtue of overmelds, albeit expensive)
- Omega normal ilvl increased to 330; RNG dependent, same weekly restrictions and potential increase to tokens required (five stafts for a body piece exchange instead of four, for instance)
- Ivalice unchanged
- Savage unchanged

In lieu of farming tomestones, you now have to run Omega normal for the best gear. Why? As noted above, it needs some incentive or people simply won't queue into it week after week. Remember, this content is intended to last several months. It needs a constant stream of people to maintain adequate queue times.

we need a system that allows a "casual" to "keep up" with the hardcore

We already have this? Every three and a half months, a 24-man raid releases that allows everyone to acquire the capped tomestone equivalent ilvl gear. Why do you need ilvl 330 gear now? You don't need it unless you're doing Savage. If you want to queue into a dungeon. It can be with a 290 Red Mage and no one's going to bat an eyelash. You just want the best gear immediately. Okay, great. Go do Savage. You don't want to? I guess you'll wait for Ivalice. Capping Creation isn't "hardcore."

[Snow_Princess]

Verity proved uncap does not harm the game. People where still running those DFs despite some having a full set for their job early, then I went on to gear 2 more before going back to the 450 thing. I saw no one complaining that someone geared faster then someone else. Also it is still has not been explainedwhy someone having a level 70 before someone else matters. They removed the 1.0 exp caping for the same reason, but the current 450 system is worse system then that ever was and people do not complain about it? confuses me why that is. I guess we need bring back EXP capping per week, because we can't have hardcore leveling faster then causal.

So what if people request 330 (wouldn't it be 329 or something anyway? ring issue) it is better then during HW, or 2.0, harassing/blocking people due to only time gates, not the ability of one's willingness to take part and get gear. Also note I am asking for a complete different system, because clearly saying uncap does not work for you, and you seem to think there is an unnecessary need to time gate so people with less time can keep up per week, and in the end of things, people should have a right to play at their own pace, not feel compelled to do dailies every day because if they miss, they are forever behind.

I am not ignoring anything, you are the only one ignoring me. I said before time and time again current tome gear is always too strong for the current content, since 2.0 this is always a problem, stop assuming my motive, I do not care about overgearing content. I want to be able to gear what is expected, on my own time, like at 50, I needed the time gate removed so I would not be harassed for a month over not being at the standard 120 ilevel, because people will not lisen when you ask for smaller pulls you are not geared for it.

The argument you are throwing at me defeats yours as well, if you only need 310 for content, then it does not matter if 330 is not capped.

For your changes that is fine, because it does not work out dating content 2 weeks old. I lost my incentive to queue for it after week 2 because of crafted gear, now it is just something to do, hit need on everything because it is there to do.

We already have this? Every three and a half months, a 24-man raid releases that allows everyone to acquire the capped tomestone equivalent ilvl gear. Why do you need ilvl 330 gear now? You don't need it unless you're doing Savage. If you want to queue into a dungeon. It can be with a 290 Red Mage and no one's going to bat an eyelash. You just want the best gear immediately. Okay, great. Go do Savage. You don't want to? I guess you'll wait for Ivalice. Capping Creation isn't "hardcore."

You mean the ineffective frustrating treadmill that is copy and pasted over and over, patch after patch for 4 years and wonder why people make threads like this?

We need more/new content/ new system/ people are being burnt out on the same thing over and over again. You just do not want people gear quicker then you. Your personal grievance is making you put words in my mouth, I am not saying that at all, and it is getting old at this point. I told you over and over and over I am not "You just want the best gear immediately."

I just had this convo with someone:
(shout) To be fair some of the XI stuff would be a nice addition to this game
Me (tell): your suggesting this game needs more content like ffxi offered many things to do yes?
(tell reply)> and a higher challenge rfor endgame serious raids yes

There isn't enough content in this game.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

You are only looking at the short term. People ran content because everything was new and Verity was only intended to last a month. By the time Savage released, people were already running out of things to spend Verity on hence why the devs made all the current 320 crafted gear require Verity. Creation, on the other hand, is meant to last for several months; until 4.1 where it's then supplemented by Ivalice gear. Furthermore, Verity was the lowest ilvl available whereas Creation is second highest. Why would anyone run Omega after a few weeks when it drops inferior gear? That's why the cap exists. It's to artificially incentivize content people wouldn't continuously do-- a philosophy which has proven effective every single time they've implemented it. When Heavensward released, no one touched Crystal Tower until the Anima sent us back there. No one does synced EX Primals from previous content, thus Wondrous Tales allowed new players to clear it since pony and bird farms typically disagree bonus. Cracked Clusters improved Leveling Roulette queues. Like it or not, people tend to follow the "carrot on a stick" approach.

I did no such thing. You simply cannot grasp the concept not everyone agrees with you. I couldn't care less if you gear as quickly as me. I have long argued against the notion raiders should always have better gear because I don't care. I disagree with tomestones being uncapped because content needs the incentive for people to continuously spam it. You can tell me all you fancy, but that doesn't make it an accurate assessment. As noted above, content lacking an incentive gets ignored. Alexander and Coil are dead. Void Ark is more or less dead. Why? No reason for anyone to do them. How many people will queue into Omega normal two months from now with uncapped tomestones being superior in every facet, be it ilvl or grind efficiency or cost? That doesn't inherently mean FFXIV couldn't improve its content, but there will always be a limit. The devs simply cannot develop enough content to accommodate how fast we consume it. Either way, Yoshida has already mentioned adding new things in the coming patches. So we shall have to wait and see how that unfolds.

All this being said, I find it rather ironic you whine in what is now two threads about people "putting words in your mouth" only to presume my only reason for disagreeing with you is because I care if you catch up to my gear progression when I made no such insinuations. Alas, I have said all that needs be said and arguing further gets either of us nowhere. So I'll let this be now.

[Snow_Princess]

You are only looking at the short term. People ran content because everything was new and Verity was only intended to last a month. By the time Savage released, people were already running out of things to spend Verity on hence why the devs made all the current 320 crafted gear require Verity. Creation, on the other hand, is meant to last for several months; until 4.1 where it's then supplemented by Ivalice gear. Furthermore, Verity was the lowest ilvl available whereas Creation is second highest. Whywould anyone run Omega after a few weeks when it drops inferior gear? That's why the cap exists. It's to artificially incentivize content people wouldn't continuously do-- a philosophy which has proven effective every single time they've implemented it. When Heavensward released, no one touched Crystal Tower until the Anima sent us back there. No one does synced EX Primals from previous content, thus Wondrous Tales allowed new players to clear it since pony and bird farms typically disagree bonus. Cracked Clusters improved Leveling Roulette queues. Like it or not, people tend to follow the "carrot on a stick" approach.

I did no such thing. You simply cannot grasp the concept not everyone agrees with you. I couldn't care less if you gear as quickly as me. I have long argued against the notion raiders should always have better gear because I don't care. I disagree with tomestones being uncapped because content needs the incentive for people to continuously spam it. You can tell me all you fancy, but that doesn't make it an accurate assessment. As noted above, content lacking an incentive gets ignored. Alexander and Coil are dead. Void Ark is more or less dead. Why? No reason for anyone to do them. How many people will queue into Omega normal two months from now with uncapped tomestones being superior in every facet, be it ilvl or grind efficiency or cost? That doesn't inherently mean FFXIV couldn't improve its content, but there will always be a limit. The devs simply cannot develop enough content to accommodate how fast we consume it. Either way, Yoshida has already mentioned adding new things in the coming patches. So we shall have to wait and see how that unfolds.

All this being said, I find it rather ironic you whine in what is now two threads about people "putting words in your mouth" only to presume my only reason for disagreeing with you is because I care if you catch up to my gear progression when I made no such insinuations. Alas, I have said all that needs be said and arguing further gets either of us nowhere. So I'll let this be now.

They did not do it for the reasons you said, they did it because it is the same formula used for 4 years.

"I find it ironic" when you say " You simply cannot grasp the concept not everyone agrees with you. " when that very thing applies to you. You can't see people get tired of doing the same thing over and over again for 4 years? You can't honestly sit there and say "we need keep doing the same thing because it works"???????????? It only appears to "work" because it is a short term system. It will tire people out and will collapse, hard, sometime in the future. This thread is evidence of the first dominoes falling.

For the last bit, I did that on purpose so you know how it feels, I am sick of it. please do not do it to me anymore. It is not the first time you did that to me. So no, it does not fit what ironic means.

I am bored also...its not that the game is bad or anything, its just this long of the same formula..although it feels a bit better,I think its finally reached its peak for me. I'm not bitter or gonna rage or anything...I am just losing interest in the game. Been playing other games, working on my career and going out..its a lot more enjoyable. Don't think I will ever return to this game "full time" again. No dancer in the expansion either..I was hoping they'd release it before I got bored of the game entirely..oh well.

Again, deny all you want, (sorry Tilla Eversong/ iromi none of this is directed to you, just using your quoted to Cassandra Solidor/Bourne_Endeavor) but a lot of people feel this, that is why things need changing, the only one looking at short term is you when you say "it works" it works because it is a short term system. You cannot keep copy and paste the same thing and expect people to stay. Is your real biases for "disagreeing" is because you simply dislike change? It needs changing, we can't be doing the same thing over and over again that we have been for the last 4 years.

[Jybril]

Again, deny all you want, (sorry Tilla Eversong/ iromi none of this is directed to you, just using your quoted to Cassandra Solidor/Bourne_Endeavor) but a lot of people feel this, that is why things need changing, the only one looking at short term is you when you say "it works" it works because it is a short term system. You cannot keep copy and paste the same thing and expect people to stay. Is your real biases for "disagreeing" is because you simply dislike change? It needs changing, we can't be doing the same thing over and over again that we have been for the last 4 years.

I've quit HW for 8 months because of the same tired forumla. I returned a bit before the launch of SB EA.
After I level the jobs I want again, you won't be seeing me for a while.
I usually get hyped with 24man raids, but since it's a once a week thing. I enjoy it once and done.
So tired of the gating...

[Felis]

I usually get hyped with 24man raids, but since it's a once a week thing. I enjoy it once and done.
So tired of the gating...

Just sub every even numbered patch then? The weekly cap in 24 man raids get removed in even numbered patches.
Also you have to be very lucky to get the gear that you want in the first run every week