What happened to SB (story)?

[Nikolas]

The SB story was a substantial disappointment. I expected more following HW. Zenous though.....Wow!! Talk about terrible.

[Dualgunner]

Yes, I'm aware. It's obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

How is Bahamut, a direct son of a direct Spawn of Hydaelyn herself, (Who was also probably helped by the Ascians to summon him as a primal) who was then brought back as a perfected vision of his former self, via two LIVING dragon eyes, equal in power to a completely fabricated being of nebulous rage, with a couple dozen dead soldiers (some of whom were athiest) and two well drained dragon's eyes?

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

[Avatre]

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

I think during the Allied Beast Tribe(ARR one) that there was a primal summoned by grief. It's been a little while since I've done it, so can't be 100% sure on it.

[CosmicKirby]

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

If you read what I wrote, my statement was that Midgardsormr was born of Hydaelyn, not Bahamut.
Upon re-reading my lore book, this is incorrect. Midgardsormr is a dragon that's powerful enough to survive in the aetheric vacuum of space and just showed up one day, from space. So this should be quite the narrative indicator of strength. How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

[Catwho]

If 4.0 was all of what we were getting, I'd agree.

But after seeing how the plot developed between 2.0 and 2.55, then again from 3.0 to 3.5, I am inclined to wait and see. Liberating the nations was probably the easy part. Do you think Garlemald is going to let them go so easily? Do you think Lyse can form a functioning government on her own, even with Alphinaud's help? Do you think Hien can actually get a nation that was razed to the ground, even down to the castle, rebooted again?

I really want to see where things develop. Too many open questions to go.

[Catwho]

I think during the Allied Beast Tribe(ARR one) that there was a primal summoned by grief. It's been a little while since I've done it, so can't be 100% sure on it.

Titan was summoned by a blood sacrifice and by a young Kobold boy's grief at the death of his parents. It was a very weak summoning, however; only HM level.

[Galgarion]

And again, the ultimate point here. If 'anyone' can summon primals like that, there should be far more primals. It's completely unbelievable that some subjugated mortal race in any of the 5,000 years the Twelve have been in their pantheon has not successfully summoned one. At LEAST with the rules that were seemingly established throughout 2.0, it was somewhat believable.

That's because Midardsormyr was a living Macguffin that was keeping the Primals plugged up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...626#post898626

The Midlander accidentally gets tossed onto the back of one of these machines, and gets carried up into the sky, where he witnesses the Garleans fight with the dragon Midgardsormr in the Battle of Silvertear Skies. Though the great dragon is able to destroy the Garlean flagship, he perishes in the process, and the seal which he protected (guarding the concentration of aether beneath Silvertear Lake) is broken, allowing the beast tribes access to this energy, which they use to freely summon their primals (as taught to them by the mysterious paragons)

So basically, when Midy was on the job, summoning Primals used to be a lot harder. When he died and Silverlake was destroyed, the Aether went out of control in Eorzea. Which is funny, because that means the Garleans are responsible for all the problems they've been trying to prevent.

How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

Were they really drained, though? Thordan used them to hoover up two Ascians before he was defeated. And like has been pointed out before, these were two eyes from one of the First Brood. Exceptionally powerful eyes from an exceptionally powerful dragon. Those guys are basically Primals who aren't primals.

[CosmicKirby]

That's because Midardsormyr was a living Macguffin that was keeping the Primals plugged up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...626#post898626

Sweet Jeebus that thing is a wordy mess. And while, I'll take you at your word for it, it would explain, (partially) how primals weren't summoned for 5 millenia, it does little to address how primals have become easier to summon Since 2.0 onward. (Wherein he was already 'dead', and has actively come back.)

So basically, when Midy was on the job, summoning Primals used to be a lot harder. When he died and Silverlake was destroyed, the Aether went out of control in Eorzea. Which is funny, because that means the Garleans are responsible for all the problems they've been trying to prevent.

The word here is Ironic. Possibly, dramatic irony. But I'll say that the vast majority of players are unaware of that fact that Midgardsormr was doing anything of the sort, and thus doesn't qualify.

Were they really drained, though? Thordan used them to hoover up two Ascians before he was defeated. And like has been pointed out before, these were two eyes from one of the First Brood. Exceptionally powerful eyes from an exceptionally powerful dragon. Those guys are basically Primals who aren't primals.

They, 'SHOULD' be drained. Crystals are drained when summoning Primals. The eyes were used to power Thordan and his knights of the round. They were used to, ostensibly, re-summon Nidhogg as a Primal. He's somehow stronger and the fanaticism of his brood is giving him strength. Much less he reconstituted his entire body, after being physically, actually, super dead. Him surviving A spear to the brain and terminal velocity impact with terra firma is even WORSE writing than if he wasn't a primal being of some sort.

Finally, Tiamat was also of the first brood, and never died, her eyes were never compromised by use other than her own, and were never inert because she received a piercing from a Dragoon friend.. Her eyes SHOULD be stronger. Heck, her grief was immense, and supposedly dragon emotions are the focal point of their power in some weird incredibly poorly explained way. Why they wouldn't be stronger? It seemingly makes no sense unless thoroughly explained. Simply saying, "Nidhogg was very very angry" is a poor explanation, and bad writing.

[Naunet]

how primals have become easier to summon Since 2.0 onward.

While I have a lot of criticisms about FFXIV's story, I think this one is misplaced. The question your asking is the same question the Scions have been asking. Yes, it's a mystery - but that's quite deliberate and framed in the narrative as a "wait, I didn't realize ____ could summon a primal now, too???" So it's not so much a plot hole as a key component of quite possibly the only plot thread that has held steady from 2.0 onward.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Simply saying, "Nidhogg was very very angry" is a poor explanation, and bad writing.

Personally, I'm a fan of the more simple explanations. Not everything needs to be explained with a 200 page thesis, and considering how popular characters like the Hulk(Literally a guy who's power is "very very angry") are, I'm hesitant to simply discount such a simple explanation. One of the goals in writing many a story is balancing simplicity with complexity after all. Except mystery stories, then you don't want simplicity.