What happened to SB (story)?

[Galgarion]

snip

And this I think, is where you're getting your wires crossed. Humans of earth of Earth are people of faith. We believe lots of stuff that we hope is true. That isn't the same thing for the setting of FFXIV, though. The greater races of Eorzeans aren't "people of faith." They live in a world of Godly literalism. They don't believe that their world was created by a goddess in the shape of a large white crystal. They know that it was as a literal and demonstrable fact.

Louisoix himself wasn't a particularly religious man, but according to Alphanaud, he nearly "Unleashed the power of the twelve when he tried to bind Bahamaut. " If a Sharlyan agnostic can almost bring about ragnarok, then why couldn't a guy like Ilberd? The further the game's story goes, the more we learn that there are no rules set in stone when it comes to the gods. "If you have sufficient motivation, and enough resources, you can call up whatever you want", is basically what we've learned.

[CosmicKirby]

And this I think, is where you're getting your wires crossed. Humans of earth of Earth are people of faith. We believe lots of stuff that we hope is true. That isn't the same thing for the setting of FFXIV, though. The greater races of Eorzeans aren't "people of faith." They live in a world of Godly literalism. They don't believe that their world was created by a goddess in the shape of a large white crystal. They know that it was as a literal and demonstrable fact.

No. By and large, no.
There very much are religions and institutions of faith within Eorzea. There are cathedrals, there are rituals and services to the twelve, and there are certainly those who disbelieve or are ignorant of others within them. For the most part, many people in Eorzea 'know' of Hydaelyn, but don't offer her worship in any way. Some are certainly skeptical of her, because she 'only' seems to commune with people who have her blessing, IE the WoL, Scions, and the former Scholars of Baldesion. To say there's 'literalism' within Eorzea is incorrect, as at no point are the Twelve actually within existence, (that we know of yet) and they're likely powered and fueled by religion in that same way that Primals are. This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, Bahamut himself isn't giving clerics magical spells and miracles for worshipping him, and primals are not in-fact gods. A RECURRING THEME within the narrative, is the Scions trying to convince the beastribes that what they THINK is a God, is in fact, just a primal, an artificial construct of their zeitgeist and zeal.

And to say that it's 'demonstrable' would mean that people have, through study and example, can prove Hydaelyn exists and created Eorzea is partially true. The Scions know it because they've talked to her, the Scholars similarly, but at the same time there's limited solidifying fact from THEIR perspective that it's all true. Louisioux was an agnostic partially because he questioned Hydaelyn and the state of cosmic conflict she has with the Ascians and Zodiark.

Louisoix himself wasn't a particularly religious man, but according to Alphanaud, he nearly "Unleashed the power of the twelve when he tried to bind Bahamaut. " If a Sharlyan agnostic can almost bring about ragnarok, then why couldn't a guy like Ilberd? The further the game's story goes, the more we learn that there are no rules set in stone when it comes to the gods. "If you have sufficient motivation, and enough resources, you can call up whatever you want", is basically what we've learned.

He unleashed their power by going through a very religious ritual, marking stones with the religious symbols of the Twelve and offering prayers. Also worth noting, this plan, FAILED Bahamut was bound by Louisoix's magic, not the twelve's.
It's far more believable that Lousoix was capable of this, because he was an Archon, lived his entire life studying magic, was shown and spoken of to be a mage of almost unreachable renown, and had Tupsimati, an artifact written to have as much of a magical significance as other similar McGuffins (Such as stupid eye balls)
The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

And again, the ultimate point here. If 'anyone' can summon primals like that, there should be far more primals. It's completely unbelievable that some subjugated mortal race in any of the 5,000 years the Twelve have been in their pantheon has not successfully summoned one. At LEAST with the rules that were seemingly established throughout 2.0, it was somewhat believable.

[Dualgunner]

The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

I think the implication is the Ascians explained to him how to do it to the letter; I agree it's something he wouldn't have been able to pull off alone. The Ascians explained to Tiamat how to summon Bahamut as a Primal, for instance*.


*IIRC

[Felis]

The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

He had help from the dark side

[CosmicKirby]

He had help from the dark side

Yes, I'm aware. It's obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

How is Bahamut, a direct son of a direct Spawn of Hydaelyn herself, (Who was also probably helped by the Ascians to summon him as a primal) who was then brought back as a perfected vision of his former self, via two LIVING dragon eyes, equal in power to a completely fabricated being of nebulous rage, with a couple dozen dead soldiers (some of whom were athiest) and two well drained dragon's eyes?

[Dualgunner]

Yes, I'm aware. It's obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

How is Bahamut, a direct son of a direct Spawn of Hydaelyn herself, (Who was also probably helped by the Ascians to summon him as a primal) who was then brought back as a perfected vision of his former self, via two LIVING dragon eyes, equal in power to a completely fabricated being of nebulous rage, with a couple dozen dead soldiers (some of whom were athiest) and two well drained dragon's eyes?

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

[Avatre]

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

I think during the Allied Beast Tribe(ARR one) that there was a primal summoned by grief. It's been a little while since I've done it, so can't be 100% sure on it.

[Catwho]

I think during the Allied Beast Tribe(ARR one) that there was a primal summoned by grief. It's been a little while since I've done it, so can't be 100% sure on it.

Titan was summoned by a blood sacrifice and by a young Kobold boy's grief at the death of his parents. It was a very weak summoning, however; only HM level.

[CosmicKirby]

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

If you read what I wrote, my statement was that Midgardsormr was born of Hydaelyn, not Bahamut.
Upon re-reading my lore book, this is incorrect. Midgardsormr is a dragon that's powerful enough to survive in the aetheric vacuum of space and just showed up one day, from space. So this should be quite the narrative indicator of strength. How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

[Dualgunner]

If you read what I wrote, my statement was that Midgardsormr was born of Hydaelyn, not Bahamut.
Upon re-reading my lore book, this is incorrect. Midgardsormr is a dragon that's powerful enough to survive in the aetheric vacuum of space and just showed up one day, from space. So this should be quite the narrative indicator of strength. How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

I apologize for misreading your statement; it was an oddly worded one and I read over the seeming redundancy (the son of the spawn of), however it doesn't change that Bahamut and Nidhogg are, as it were, the same tier of being (son of Midgardsormr). It's also possible the ascians gave the eyes another refill once the Warriors of Darkness delivered them.

We also don't know how spent they were--they were dangerous enough still that keeping possession of them was dangerous and could get us possessed. Dangerous enough that we had to use all our power to rip them from Estinien still. Dangerous enough the Ascians and Warriors of Darkness considered them worthy to be enough to summon a dread primal with power akin to Bahamut, which later turned out to be Shinryu.

The only time we see the eyes completely drained is when Estinien declares the balls inert and stabs them. But even in their drained form, they were a threat, maybe because they still gather and generate aether over time. I mean, one of his eyes has been in the possession of the Azure Dragoons for a millennium.

Nidhogg is super strong because... ?

In addition to his insane age, being one of the First Brood, Nidhogg is also one of Midgardsormr's direct sons (clearly). As a show of his power he turned an entire species to his cause and waged a 1000 year war on his rage alone. Rage that overtook him and became a completely different beast, easily capable of defeating Hraesvelgr (another of the First Brood) in single combat.

EDIT: Edited to highlight an explanation that might be satisfactory.