SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Sorry but sending out a retainer is not "maximum effort"

What is with the strawman logic here? Was there EVER an argument about asking for "Maximum results"? A possibility of having a vendor similar to HW is maximum results now"?

Who said that sending a retainer out once was maximum effort? All I said was that you cannot expect the best possible results (maximum results) with the minimum amount of effort (sending a retainer out once). You have to be there for the retainer when it gets back, so you can send it out again, then again, then again. IE - sending it out more "than average" which is what you were complaining about in the post I replied to!

[QT_Melon]

Who said that sending a retainer out once was maximum effort? All I said was that you cannot expect the best possible results (maximum results) with the minimum amount of effort (sending a retainer out once). You have to be there for the retainer when it gets back, so you can send it out again, then again, then again. IE - sending it out more "than average" which is what you were complaining about in the post I replied to!

You just repeated the same argument I refuted.

This is a strawman argument because no one is asking for "maximum" I'm not sure if you understand this. You're making a position that people are arguing for a high end result and are doing little. That isn't the argument at all.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

The difference between what you say you are asking for, better results for mimimal work, and the maximum results for minimum work, is one of degree, not kind. Where do I get the idea you want minimal work?

Still more time spent than others on average can

Again you're on a lot, others have mentioned limited time.

If people can only put in minimal time, they cannot expect more than minimal results. Its that plain and simple.

[QT_Melon]

No. Again, not the argument. You're being too linear on the argument itself.

The person had multiple retainers, which already was more than the max of a single player. The person also came on even if for a few minutes every hour, to resend them. You are equating that with "effort". None of that is effort or should be a "min/max" argument at all. They are arguments in more specific context, and you're using a strawman in trying to refute the problem.

The game devs have either done the following when a mat is a bottleneck. (Interesting is that no one refutes that the drops are terrible, or even the proposals below, that I've stated several times now).

1. Increase the drop rate. - The problem with this is...this is the least measurable effect for people. The one way to measure this though, is hunting the mob, giving more drops than a *single* retainer can bring in an hour (and I'd say it should be at least twice to 3 times the amount). If so then it's not so bad. The thing is people were complaining that their retainers are bring more than what they're harvesting. It's a matter of seeing if it's exaggeration or an actual problem to be looked at.

2. The mat drops in other parts of content, be it a dungeon, or maps (Canal/Aquapolis).

3. The mat is sold by a vendor. This happened in the case of beast tribes and Sundries. Tea Leaves, Mistletoe, Rock Salt were sold by Sundries, later one beast tribes sold nuggets, and logs etc...

Basically player advantage, ie a person hunting or gathering should always be given over a retainer. People are arguing about usage of a retainer because the retainer is given too much advantage in this case.

[Elamys]

Don't be ridiculous. The problem is that people putting in the effort of what they can get cannot even remotely get enough of the material to craft.

There is no other feature of the game like this.

[Silverbane]

Don't be ridiculous. The problem is that people putting in the effort of what they can get cannot even remotely get enough of the material to craft.

Not sure what that sentence means, but my wife spent 40 minutes on her iL297 Bard last night killing Manzasiris on the steppes, and flew away with enough Manzasiri hair to craft an entire set of top-end gatherer gear. And leveled her chocobo in the process -- or vice versa.

Perhaps some of the posters here should actually try putting in a modest effort before they start complaining about how impossible it is to gather your own mats.

[QT_Melon]

Don't be ridiculous. The problem is that people putting in the effort of what they can get cannot even remotely get enough of the material to craft.

There is no other feature of the game like this.

I just checked with bard to see if the Manzasiri hairs still had a terrible drop rate. I checked how much time it took since I had to queue for something with a 10 minute wait tome. I got 20 hairs in 10 minutes. Not great but more more then the expected amount against a retainer.

[Silverbane]

I just checked with bard to see if the Manzasiri hairs still had a terrible drop rate. I checked how much time it took since I had to queue for something with a 10 minute wait tome. I got 20 hairs in 10 minutes. Not great but more more then the expected amount against a retainer.

LOL. Sounds like people were saying something was too difficult because they'd never even tried to do it.
Who's going to apologize now for talking out their butt, hmm?

[QT_Melon]

LOL. Sounds like people were saying something was too difficult because they'd never even tried to do it.
Who's going to apologize now for talking out their butt, hmm?

They did have a horrible drop rate before. It was probably fixed in the last update.

Also being rude and passive aggressive to players, is likely to have any points you made ignored. So maybe tone that down?

[Silverbane]

They did have a horrible drop rate before. It was probably fixed in the last update?

Now you're definitely just making things up to serve your pre-conceived conclusions.
You have no statistically significant evidence at all that the drop rate changed, do you?
Oh, but they must have, or you'd look like a fool.

Oh snap -- you aren't a politician in real life, are you?

Either way, I am indeed laughing at you, and your fellow travelers on the It's-Too-Hard bandwagon.
And I'm not replying to the part of your post where you once again use a term you obviously do not understand.
Don't just parrot what other people say, look things up, for goodness sake!