SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[Silverbane]

(responding to Roth) What is with the strawman logic here? ...

(Responding to me) So 2/3 of your reply was off topic which now equals "none of it?" No sorry, try again. You decided to intentionally include those in your reply.

LOL. You post something 100% off-topic that is nothing but personal attacks on two other posters, and you complain because I included Weaver mats along with Leatherworker mats in a four-word list? And where is this "none of it" from? You put it in quotes, as if I said it, but it's not in the post you are responding to, or in any other post in this thread for that matter.

I'd like to think you know how to have an honest and logical debate with someone, but I don't see any evidence of that in your posts.

[Silverbane]

Price fluctuation is a thing you know. You're not guaranteed to sell those mats at the same price you paid.

True, you might make money, you might lose. Wow, risk in a game, imagine that. But opportunity cost is a thing, too, you know.

Furthermore, planning ahead only works if you've set aside a specific period to craft. A lot of people decide to do it on the fly.

Nonsense. I have no idea when I'm going to craft new gear to get my gatherer retainers to 1150 gathering, but I know I'm going to, and I know what mats I'll need to do so, so I've planned ahead without any concept of a "specific period." My retainers are out gathering those mats even as I write this. They are also restocking any mats I use that I am getting low on, even though I may not actually need, say, Kudzu root, any time soon. I might be wasting a few ventures, but I don't care.

My post was a direct response to your accusation buffing drop rates somehow "dumbs down" crafting. And you've dodged it every single reply thereafter.

And now you're just making things up. I made no such accusation.

Since you're so much smarter. It should be a simple answer, non?

Whether I'm smarter or not, at least I'm not incoherent. You haven't presented a question, so what is there supposed to be a simple answer too, exactly?

Perhaps the same as passive aggressive personal attacks? I find rather amusing you take offense to someone supposedly taking a jab at you but have no qualms doing it yourself.

You don't see the difference between criticizing a post and insulting the person who posted it?
Sad.

[Ziggyzapps]

Square did a good job on the dawn serge mats. Players could hunt manes and hairs and make some good money if they had no other way to. I hunted them at one point and it would of been over 500k an hour if i sold them, decent for a non crafter/gatherer. Prices always stayed high on crafter gear, I bought manes and hairs off market when I needed them to craft more. It doesn't matter what retainer you have, any retainer can go get something and you can sell it or craft it into a base mat or whatever and make more money. The sun shines on them all. Personally I would take a botanist and miner over hunter retainers, especially when leveling crafters, only leatherworker really benefits from hunter. I don't even send my hunter out anymore cause I don't need anything but I always need palladium sand and pretty much every botanist item. Without manes and hairs the price of gazelle hide would of dropped to nothing and gatherer equipment would of plummeted too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Nonsense. I have no idea when I'm going to craft new gear to get my gatherer retainers to 1150 gathering, but I know I'm going to, and I know what mats I'll need to do so, so I've planned ahead without any concept of a "specific period." My retainers are out gathering those mats even as I write this. They are also restocking any mats I use that I am getting low on, even though I may not actually need, say, Kudzu root, any time soon. I might be wasting a few ventures, but I don't care.

Good for you? As previously noted, not everyone has multiple battle retainers nor does this have any impact on whether mob drop rates are exceedingly low. I send mine out constantly too. It's still tedious needing so much of a single base mat.

And now you're just making things up. I made no such accusation.

<Sigh> As if 4.0 didn't dumb down the game enough.

Don't complain that your hunter retainers aren't a class you've leveled yet, that's just poor planning. I had one of four like that (an archer, I main WHM with a side of WAR now), so I reset him to Fisher and re-leveled him.

And after putting L310 scrip gear on my retainers, I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs. And still have four stacks of ventures, the amount of GC seals you get from dungeon drops is insane.

You gave no further context nor did you quote anyone else. Therefore, it's hard not to infer your post in a thread about mob drop rates to be precisely how I responded.

Whether I'm smarter or not, at least I'm not incoherent. You haven't presented a question, so what is there supposed to be a simple answer too, exactly?

Apparently, you are. Good to see that passive aggressiveness hasn't simmered down yet.

You don't see the difference between criticizing a post and insulting the person who posted it?
Sad.

You didn't criticize. You took jabs at the perceived poor planning of other crafts, avoided the very response you were criticized for and immediately cried when someone called you "ignorant" for continuously missing the point. But yes, we're the ones with reading comprehension issues. Sad, indeed.

[Ksenia]

Personally I would take a botanist and miner over hunter retainers

Same.
One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is retainer gear score requirements. Stormblood Gathering requirement starts at 728 Gathering. Stormblood hunting requirement is a 245 score. You can ignore accessories when gearing a Gathering retainer. You can't do that with Hunt retainers and the Augmented 60 set is only 240 gear score so you are forced to suit Stormblood Hunt retainers in full Stormblood gear and that isn't cheap. Even NQ versions.

[QT_Melon]

LOL. You post something 100% off-topic that is nothing but personal attacks on two other posters, and you complain because I included Weaver mats along with Leatherworker mats in a four-word list? And where is this "none of it" from? You put it in quotes, as if I said it, but it's not in the post you are responding to, or in any other post in this thread for that matter.

I'd like to think you know how to have an honest and logical debate with someone, but I don't see any evidence of that in your posts.

Can you go back and re-read the thread please?

ad Hominem much?

Pointing out logical fallacy is not the same as a personal attack, which is an attack on one's character. You're trying to dismiss something you stated as not part of the post. That's not true. You can't come in this thread and say something like "I got some tiger hides, and the tea in China tastes bad " and not have people pointing out you mentioned the tea in China. "Well my topic is still on topic because I mentioned the hides first and you're questioning me about the tea in China!"

Square did a good job on the dawn serge mats. Players could hunt manes and hairs and make some good money if they had no other way to.

I'd agree if this wouldn't lead to botting, or people with multiple retainers to take the advantage over the player who needs the money. It was bad enough prior zones had bots, like for the fleece and snurble tufts, and other areas as well. The other thing is there's NQ gear that uses the same mats and sells cheaper, which will cause a disinterest in selling the gear if someone, for some reason botches it becoming HQ.

I do remember however, prices adjusting when Aquapolis dropped the felts. Were the yarns dropping in Canals? I had gotten various lumbers and the Cloths for 1 star crafts...but I can't confirm the yarns and surge, since none have dropped when I was doing maps.

[Silverbane]

Good for you? As previously noted, not everyone has multiple battle retainers nor does this have any impact on whether mob drop rates are exceedingly low. I send mine out constantly too. It's still tedious needing so much of a single base mat.

Not the point. You said "Furthermore, planning ahead only works if you've set aside a specific period to craft." I called that for the nonsense it is.

Clearly, since you won't even recognize such obvious mistakes on your part, arguing with you is a waste of my time. Welcome to my ignore list -- you're only the second person to earn a place on it.

[Silverbane]

Can you go back and re-read the thread please?

Oh, I did much better than that. I searched the entire text of the thread for the word "none."
Your supposed quote "none of it" didn't show up, much less as something I posted.
You just made it up.

ad Hominem much?

Pointing out your false statements isn't ad hominem. Go look up the term before you trot it out. Here, let me help:

"a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument -- rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself." -- Wikipedia.

Pointing out that your portraying of the phrase "none of it" as a quote (or as something I posted) is dishonest is not an ad hominem, but simply a conclusion easily drawn from the facts.

FYI, arguing (in particular, arguing points of law, science, and technology) is a big part of what I do for a living.

[QT_Melon]

Oh, I did much better than that. I searched the entire text of the thread for the word "none."
Your supposed quote "none of it" didn't show up, much less as something I posted.
You just made it up.

The argument you tried to make was that the mane and hair was irrelevant because you stated skins. When in fact 2 of the 3 items has to do with what I was talking about. You reached the conclusion I was off topic/deceitful by pulling from your very statement. Regardless if I mentioned the quote by whole or not it was in context to what you wrote. Or are you denying that the hair and mane should not be in question despite the fact you said it? Is your statement relevant or not?

FYI, arguing (in particular, arguing points of law, science, and technology) is a big part of what I do for a living.

Nice argument from authority fallacy there.


You cannot bully me, or try some scare tactic when I'm responding to your statements by calling me deceitful or dishonest because it is none of those things. I won't back down when someone is trying those kind of scare tatics and making personal attacks on my character. I will stand up for myself. So you can stop it or get back to the point.

There is something a bit wrong when an overworld mob drop is harder to acquire than a gated node. Whether this can be remedied by an increase of percentage of drops (I wouldn't know how much would be fair I think the devs need to look at the objective on it) or making it a vendor item or Canal drop would greatly be appreciated.

If the intended purpose was to get people out in overworld and harvest by battle classes, people who are in battle classes find this frustrating and everyone will go to the path of least resistance. So people who have been able to afford battle retainers, and extra ones at that are gaining a distinct advantage and this is unbalanced play.

[Silverbane]

... people with multiple retainers to take the advantage over the player who needs the money ...

Major point: There is no "player who needs the money," just players who want the money. And the game provides plenty if the player is willing to do the work.

Minor point: all characters (above the required level) can have multiple retainers: two each. And every player paying the standard subscription can have multiple characters.
Therefore every player paying the standard subscription can have several retainers, no extra charge.

It can be a pain moving things from character to character though. A big pain sometimes.