Is SE really going to repeat the foruma from 2.0 and 3.0???

[HyoMinPark]

I've never had issues gearing multiple jobs even with weekly lockouts in place. However, I don't limit myself just to tomestone gear. I also utilize crafted gear, primal drops, 8-man normal mode gear, Savage gear, and 24-man gear. During HW lockouts, I had tanks, healers, and my main (BRD) relatively geared before the lockouts were lifted. Currently, I have an ilvl 320 BRD, and ilvl 315 AST and RDM. AST and RDM are in a mixture of Verity, Prinal drops, and Omega normal drops. BRD is a mixture of Creation, Verity, Primal, Omega normal, and Savage. And soon to be crafted, since I am gearing crafters to make some of the 320 crafted items for her. Which means my AST and RDM will also have crafted items, and possible any unwanted Savage drops as well. Depending on what loot drops and what my static members do not want.

It isn't particularly hard to gear multiple jobs even with lockouts in place if people utilize all the different gear options available to them. I see a lot of people bringing up Tomestone caps, but Tomestone gear is not the only kind of gear available to players. If players would like faster ways to gear up, the game provides them outside of just capped Tomestone gear. But players need to be willing to utilize them.

If players don't intend to tackle Ex primals or Savage content, and just plan to do Daily Roulettes or more casual content, max ilvl is not needed. It's honestly overkill for the daily roulettes.

[NolLacnala]

I've been warning others since ~2.4 that we'd be seeing nothing but reskinned 2.2 and 2.3 for the rest of the game's lifespan, with the occasional oddball content thrown in

[SoloWingMetatron]

I know what you mean. Having played Pso2 the customisation and skill trees, far outweigh the lackluster tripe we have at the moment.
Take merits from XI you could customise your job the way you wanted you where not all the same. Gearsets. Even in Pso2 you have your rainbow pallette, where's the elemental diversity? Fire damaging fire? Last I checked in single player incarnations of FF that healed. Nothing about this game is diverse, when it comes to its job system. Everyone is herded into doing the same thing, essentially we are prized cattle. Content wise the game is dull. It really is a copy and paste format and I really don't think it's going to stand the test of time.

I know right! Despite being a free to play game PSO2 offers so much in terms of job, gear, and character customization. Funnily enough even FF14 has seemingly tried to copy a number of things from PSO2. Wondrous Tails are just a direct copy of PSO2's Bingo Card system. PotD is just a copy of PSO2's Challenge Miles. Even Demi-Bahamut is just a copy of the Photon Blasts! Yet all of these things are just lesser versions of what PSO2 and other games have to offer! Where is the innovation SE!? Where is the soul!?

FFXI is another good example of job customization as you say. I loved subbing SCH as a secondary job to my SMN main. Having that extra MP pool from Sublimation via my SCH sub was amazing! and something that can only exist with job customization, diversity and variety! Which is why it is important for FF14 to make that shift. It is far more than just "Smoke and Mirrors" people.

Even if it's a illusion of choice I gravitate more to those type of games with set bonuses/choices. This is why I can put down this game easily after I've finish the main story and raid normal story and play something else until next story patch. I imo don't consider this a mmo to me it's more like a single player game with mutiplayer feature with very basic gear options. /Shrug that my two cents take it as you will still like the game don't get me wrong I just get more burnt out quickly with this game compare to others.

I actually think FF14 would flourish far more as a single player game at this point. Or at least a semi multiplayer game, like Diablo 3 or Minecraft. Where you can just invite your friends to play with you in your own world. The MMO elements of FF14 are just sub par atm (All that nonsense with Ixion crashing games and blocking up The Lochs springs to mind. Just to name one of many examples). The things that make FF14 good are all things that would benefit more from being a single player/semi multiplayer game. Unfortunately the die has be cast at this point though, but nevertheless.

[Sandpark]

Most other MMO's offer choice and variety in some form. Even if it is just "smoke and mirrors". FF14 is the only MMO that I have played (and I have played many) that makes no attempt to offer choice to the player beyond superficial things like glamour. Where are the skill trees? Attribute points? Gear choices? Weapon choices? Set bonuses? the list goes on. SB doesn't even have a proper raid anymore. Omega is literally 4 trial fights. They could be added to Trial Roulette today and fit just fine. It is not a Raid by any definition of the word. They are trials. Every other MMO around at least offers these things in some form. FF14 does not. Therefore it is linear. An MMO should never be linear. This is not FF13.

This would be the second round of someone wanting more choice. The original game had no jobs only classes, attribute points, gear choices, no weapon choices or set bonuses that I am aware of. The zones were almost seamless. SE couldn't pull it off. I don't understand how not because they did some of that with XI. I think the forums even have a tag for XI lovers something to do with causing a ruckus. All FF are pretty linear, just look at the main story in XIV, there is no deviation. I love it and I hate it.

Couldn't agree more. There is no diversity in this game, until they get rid of the archaic holy trinity, you'll never get it. You'll never get a true support job. Gear is disposable. It doesn't stay relievent. It truly is SSDD syndrome.

They should really take a look at how diverse the job system was in XI and bring that to XIV. I'm not saying copy and paste, cause you know some snowflake will take umbridge. But I'd rather have a diverse job system, than the boring and dull one we have atm. Every player has the same rotation. You must have the must have role skills. Same way to meld, because this community is so toxic if you try to deviate, you're basically branded a heathen and slandered until you conform.

This game has been going the opposite direction from XI since 1.0. I don't think they are going to reverse course at this point. I was on that trip a long time but there came a point where I just had to accept both games were different and would remain different.

The ilevel tome trip works just fine until level cap. From that point on though, it diminishes any relevant long standing content.From that point on stat growth comes in patches, you get stronger and in the process content gets obsoleted, only revisited for glamours, or tomestones.


What if?


The ilvl did not raise period, at level cap and the caps were matched to any content at whatever the max level is currently. Every raid, trial, hunt, fate,etc post 60 were raised to max current ilevel/job level/stats and it stayed there for one or two expansions.

Progression would be horizontal for that one-two expansion period, then it would get a brief update when the level and ilvl gets vertical, raises to say level 90 and then the process of everything post 60 gets kicked up to the current max ilvl/level/stats again.

Endgame content never gets obsolete per player unless they get all the gear/titles/mounts from that particular content. Each player has that feeling of working for a substantially lasting gear that means more when it isn't just a cosmetic. SE has a little less work not having to recycle or push out hundreds of pieces every patch, and the hard work they put into endgame gets used more.

But won't that put returning or new players at a disadvantage?
Yes and no imo.

Yes, because they won't get the cake handed to them to be able to participate in everything right off the back if they are not up to the current ilvl or level.

No, because even though they have to work to catch up some, anything they earn will have longer lasting relevancy.



Would that be a good thing for all players or only good for the ones who stay subscribed and work for their worth?



Which path would bring SE the most money?


The current ilvl wheel like it is now, which works but has some of the players who want more depth and time investment feeling dismay?

Or my idea, which might work might be at the dismay of new, returning, or casual players?

This is all just musing, I don't think the ship will be changing course at this point. I am happy now but could be happy in an alternative too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't know how you got the idea that I think capping tomes is difficult. I briefly explained why a restriction hurts the game, hunts for one would be pointless outside the token you get for materia, that added benefit allows them to stay attractive, and the fact the token drop isn't restricted per week or day helps create a constant flow of upgrades. I even touched on how a uncapped tome system encourages dungeon runs, no tome limit plus the promised gear drop, encourages more runs, glamor alone drives people to do content this is a proven fact, when it's paired with being able to keep classes geared up with current gear it doesn't form a negative impact on player sustainability.

You didn't touch upon anything beyond your own playstyle preferences. The devs need to consider the majority. People will not run content unless essentially bribed. For instance, very few raiders give a hoot about normal modes. They pick up crafted gear because many just can't be bothered with the easy mode equivalent. Allow them to farm drops whenever they fancy and I guarantee you normal mode Omega is dead content within a month. Why do you think they stuff mounts into practically everything? It keeps people active. The fact DPS queues jumped considerably after they slapped VI materia for "in need" bonus on leveling is a testament to that fact. Furthermore, no tomestone limitation renders crafted gear, non-augmented Omega gear and the 24 gear obsolete. I literally would have no reason to even look at Ivalice more than once since I'll have long gotten enough tomestones for every job I care about. In fact, look at Verity-- the current unrestricted tomestone. How many people at level 70 don't have all their gear at 310? It's been precisely one month and people already have multiple jobs at 310 because there's no limitation. That would occur if Creation were also uncapped, except unlike Verity, it's supposed to maintain relevancy for six months.

PvP has uncapped wolf marks and players still farm it for that reason, though PvP is a touchy subject, more so based on how unbalanced it is and how unrefined it plays, PvP still gets plenty attention from the player base. PvP still has many people running it for exclusive items and bragging rights across the board, and PvP also encourages players to try new classes much more effectively than any PvE content. Again no weekly tome system.

No they don't. I've been capped on wolf marks for months. I run PvP because I like it. The only time I cared about Wolf Marks is when I was hunting for glamours. Regardless, you just said one of the factors. People want those exclusive mounts, i.e. an incentive.

Crafted gear is also touchy, many players myself included think crafted gear should be much more attractive, but it isn't, it's nearly pointless outside of HQ and if it didn't have the ability to be melded as much as it did, the gear would be dead on arrival. Same with 24 man raids, that gear has always been catch up gear with the option to upgrade tome gear.

That's the point those. It gives players an option to avoid the weekly Omega lock out and gear to the ilvl requirement to enter Savage should they choose. It's stepping stones gear. The 24 man is both a catch up option and an incentive for veterans to gear their alts. As noted above, devoid of that incentive. People wouldn't have a reason to keep running them, which is how Weeping City and Dun Scaith stayed relevant several months after their release.

PotD is successful due to the glaring fact you can run it as many times as you want, get unlimited chests, level up fast because of player drought in dungeons, and earn new rewards. But nothing has a limit on it.

PotD is successful for its fast and efficient leveling. It would have died long ago had it not become the de facto way to level, especially as a DPS.

[Damona]

So this is my first time actually starting a new expansion, for 2.0, I started at release, quit, came back, quit, Then came back to HW with void ark ending beingcurrent while few weeks before The Weeping City of Mhach. I thought to myself hmm wouldn't it be something if it stopped at a 3rd one, be a weekly for that gear, only have about 2 months to pass by, have it uncapped while this causing to make it easier to get upgrades that lets you be even on the best gear in the game?

Then I am sure they are going to double the weekly limit, then drop it completely like they did in 2.0 for the tomestones.

So starting out on unlimited tomestones I though maybe SE will take a different approach, like yellow scripts for crafting and gathering (I am not sure if that happened in 2.0 or 3.0) so I thought maybe they where going to try something different.

Now that we have a weekly cap again, are we really going to have the 3-24 man zones again, where you get a weekly gear from, have 3 sets of delta scape, while throwing in more primal here and there that drop weapons? I mean I just do not get it, why repeat the same thing, reskining what was done in 2.0 and 3.0 only different level, while having all these weekly and daily things? isn't there a better way of handling progression and not have the same thing over and over again? What is the point?

What do these weekly caps really achieve? why are they there? Why not do the same effect though weekly and daily bonuses for quests and such (think of the cluster daily/weekly for HW relics) and for those that want to gear several jobs, they can grind it out? What if some patch makes someone's job unwanted spending all those weekly limits on that job? How are they supposed to gear something else with the limits?

As sad as it sounds, this is how the game is supposed to be. I am not here to defend the game for it, but what you are looking for is: "Why doesnt this game have more interesting gear?". I ranted about this many times and it simply isnt needed for the crowd that is playing the game.

As an example, why would you run omega normal for 320 drops when you could just get HQ 320 gear?
Because Omega stuff is free? Because you could just gather friends for it and still get said gear for free? Perhaps you dont have the crafters leveled to craft it? No gil to buy it? No contacts to hand the mats too?

What I am getting at is: If everyone would know their way around omega normal, it would be dead content in about a week, you would still need that weapon token from v4 but whats the point? If you arent doing savage then 310-320 will be fine until the next ilvl tier anyways. Its the game biggest positive point and the greatest flaw at the same time.
I could now quit until the next ilvl tier and be up to date on gear in about 1-2 weeks. So why do I tell a bunch of stuff that is very obvious anyways?

Because upping the creation tome to 900 or uncapping it, wouldnt matter in any bit for the great majority of the casual players. Since the way of quickly gearing other jobs already exists, even to a level where you are ready for almost any content in said ilvl tier, be it verity or crafted gear.

Upping the creation tome cap wont happen though since there is money involved, its the same reason why you need 7 tokens for a weapon from v4, the same reason why they havent changed the system and probably wont ever do. Why would they? The subs havent dropped enough to justify a change, new people always come in anyways and a large majority even is happy with the system because it gives them the illusion of progression - while their progression is facerolling the same ez mode dungeons for 330 gear.

I've been also subbing less and less and at times I am already thinking about subbing only when a new xpac launches for the story. Permasubbing ffxiv is the most soulless and boring grind you can do to yourself since the gear is so damn meaningless and will be always replaced anyways.

If you truly want something to change, then get everyone to quit for 2-3 months and you'll see how talkative the devs will be. Wont happen either though since one can still pretend that its "good" right? Or "hope" that it will get better eh? I mean each to his own, I cant dictate anyone how to be happy and what to do with their free time, but sometimes I am amazed how this game stays alive so well with gear progression thats as shallow as it gets.

Vote with your wallet! ;3

[Nominous]

Now that we have a weekly cap again, are we really going to have the 3-24 man zones again, where you get a weekly gear from, have 3 sets of delta scape, while throwing in more primal here and there that drop weapons? I mean I just do not get it, why repeat the same thing, reskining what was done in 2.0 and 3.0 only different level, while having all these weekly and daily things? isn't there a better way of handling progression and not have the same thing over and over again? What is the point?

The gearing treadmill in this game is like a well oiled machine. They know it works well and accomplishes all the goals they could hope for, while keeping things varied enough with new content every now and again. Nobody is left too far behind for their choice of playstyle- Raiders have quicker (and broader) gearing options, while the less hardcore/social can get tome gear and 24-man gear. Primals basically become a part of raid tier progression when you think about how their weapons occasionally are worth getting before going in. Relic gear offers unique benefits for everyone involved, by the time the last patch of an expansion hits. They can more easily predict the point at which people will hit specific item levels with weekly tome/token caps. That helps to keep people busy until the next patch they release, while simultaneously pushing people to raid since it means more gear.

Basically... why fix what isn't broken? People get 'bored' with any system in any game after a couple hundred hours. There's no reason to change things up based on that, when people will just get tired with the new thing in a couple months too. That's to say, while some people might think this is running a bit stale, it's really just consistency. Which is good. They haven't stopped trying to add new content, in lieu of just pushing the same ole' same ole'. They've tried, no matter how much they fail, with Diadem, Lords of Verminion, PvP, PoTD, and the upcoming Eureka, and Super Savage.

[ADVSS]

Yeah this is pretty much it...luckilly it looks like the closed beta for FFXV Comrades is coming out soon, so that will be interesting to see. I came to terms with this since 3.x with the way the treadmill works, you just sort of wait and get easy upgrades every 6 months or so, since you go through gear and hard earned stuff like relics like they were water

[Zarabeth]

Speaking as someone who's played the game fairly steadily, I like how it is now. However, I don't rush in, try to run through all the contents in a week, then quit again.

[Jas710]

I like the idea that others have suggested about some sort of "rollover" tomes, similar to how cellular carriers go about with minutes and data, so people can gear up alts without the strict weekly countdown.

Although, they'd need to layer it with some kind of code that lets it apply only when two or more capped jobs are detected. If its just a single job, the current system is no big deal.