Tank Balance Achieved?

[MyaValentine]

As it stands WAR are back to top self DPS king PLD and DRK needing slashing Debuff to keep or do more/less I think darknight might need a slight defense buff and maybe some damage but not so much. I've seen any party workout perfectly with any tank composition and as expected coming from a paladin main ( paladin utility doesn't really chage much in savage fight ) maybe it does but so far v1 and v2 doesn't really help much outside of fuck ups and progression.

Now remeber this is not about how each class feels but how each class perform in savage.

so maybe I'm just crazy or I'm missing something lurking on the forums and it's just me but what are your opinions on the matter, Have we achieved Tank Balance?

disclaimer (I'm using my girlfriends account so she doesn't have any tanks lvl up to 70)

[HyperiusUltima]

SNIP

The answer is no. WAR has no utilities except its own damage output(which matches normal PLD AND DRK damage output overall), and what's more WAR has to work harder to match them as well!

If anything, WAR can't 'Shake It Off' because of a 120s timer and their DPS abilities being locked to Deliverance.

[Launched]

Yeah, tanks sure are balanced when there are only 3 WARs in the top 20 Neo Exdeath groups on FFlogs, and when the highest DPS (a WAR) is only 50 DPS ahead of the second (a PLD).

[MyaValentine]

The answer is no. WAR has no utilities except its own damage output(which matches normal PLD AND DRK damage output overall), and what's more WAR has to work harder to match them as well!

If anything, WAR can't 'Shake It Off' because of a 120s timer and their DPS abilities being locked to Deliverance.

What utility can you give war that doesn't involves buffing the rest of the PT overall dps? I can agree than war maybe need just a pinch more of dps since they require more practice to pull the same numbers as paladin but other than that War is on a good position right now. I think the one that needs more help right now Is DRK since is currently doing less damage than pld and war and it has the worst cooldowns of the 3 but still at this moment there's no reason to bring a tank over the other all 3 tank do roughly the same damage mitigate and do the content on the same level. That to me sounds balanced maybe tone pld dmg down a bit? other than that there's no Gordias lurking around and any tank composition works.

[MyaValentine]

Yeah, tanks sure are balanced when there are only 3 WARs in the top 20 Neo Exdeath groups on FFlogs, and when the highest DPS (a WAR) is only 50 DPS ahead of the second (a PLD).

while I understand you want warrior to be top dps, at this moment your party doesn't get affected by any composition of tanks you might bring, they can maybe buff war a bit more and drk or nerf pld dmg a bit, but other than that you can take any tank and get the same result aslong as the player is good enough.

[Nivarea]

Well, no. Not yet.
PLD is head and shoulders ahead DRK and WAR. It got the best utilities, can do basically as much DPS as a WAR while being far less punishing in their burst window, and is also the best defense wise. WAR got a slightly better DPS if played optimally, but it's harder to be at a decent level, and they have no utility. DRK is the weakest tank DPS wise, and the weakest tank mitigation wise. Their redeeming grace is TBN, which while being good is not that strong. Omega also got many magic damages, which explain why they're not that bad, but on physical fights, DRK is really gutted.

We can't say tanks are balanced if one Tank is better at everything. It was the same in HW with WAR. The only thing keeping people to run two PLD right now is the LB penalty.

[Dezee]

[FallenShadows]

My opinion is... its really, really close, but not QUITE there. The problem with War is its skillcap/effort put into its dps rotation is disgustingly high compared to the other two (and very easily screwed over by mechanics), and for this reason along with lack of utility, they should ideally be the highest dps of the 3 (not by much, but by like ~200-300 dps). Drk needs a bit more damage to be a little closer to War (they bring slight utility and their damage is significantly easier to apply in raid settings) and Pld should sit on the lower end as its utility is highest (again, not by much).

Alternatively, give all 3 tanks some unique utility buffs (like Pld mitigation for Passage of Arms, War gives group HP/healing, Drk gives group shielding) and put all the tanks' damage/skillcaps in a similar spot. Which would probably result in tanking being a bit more boring due to war skillcap lowered rather than pld/drk skillcap raised.

[ovIm]

Well, lets look at the facts to answer this.

DPS:
WAR has the highest personal DPS, yes, but with the slashing debuff applied, all 3 tanks roughly do the same damage. So yeah, one could say in this pure metric, the tanks are balanced.
The only thing to note here is that WAR heavily relies on his IR+Zerg burst window to keep his DPS up, missing fellcleaves results in a heavy damage penalty overall.
DRK and PLD have more sustained DPS, and with the current raid design, WAR seems to have gotten the short end of the stick for progress groups.
So I'd say DPS wise, WAR is currently in a bad position, despite his high personal DPS.

Mitigation
For single enemy fights, I see no big issue with either tank really. DRKs TBN is hella useful, PLD has shelltron and WAR can easily switch to Defiance for IB thanks to 4.05.

In a group pull, thanks to the changes in blocking (now possible from all sides), PLD has a huge amount of passive mitigation always up, and the cooldowns to improve on that.
Close behind this is WAR, who can easily combine his CDs to be more effective, though, the loss of bloodbath is definitely felt.
DRK however has a very weak mitigation kit, relying a lot on TBN, which does not really help for group pulls. It has gotten a bit better with the buff to quietus, allowing you to DA-AD more often.

Utility
The real issue arises now. As you can see above, PLD already has a slight edge over WAR and DRK, however, nothing to severe and definitely within the scope of reason. However, WAR brings no utility for the rest of the group, and DRK only brings TBN every 15 seconds, while a PLD can cover, intervention, clemency and passage of arms to prevent damage to his teammates or heal them up if required. DRK and WAR both lost their utility (Delirium and Storms Path), and have gained nothing in return. This is severly unbalanced when acknowledging the difference in possibilities (or lack thereof) in the mitigation and DPS capabilities of the tanks, as this means there is no objective reason not to pick a PLD over one of the other two classes.

Gameplay
This is highly subjective, but should be considered as well. IMHO, PLD is the easiest tank to play, with 2 burst windows alternating every 30s, a clear cut rotation and steady damage. WAR and DRK seem to have a much higher skill floor that needs to be reached in order to perform close to what PLD can bring. This too should be considered when talking about balance, because as it stands now, PLD bringst the easiest gameplay, the easiest DPS, the highest mitigation and the most versatile utility kit.

Conclusion
There is simply no objective reason not to play paladin, and that is because the tanks are, currently, still not balanced. However, I hope square acknoledges that and pushes out fixes in 4.1, because I really, really want to see any kind of tank combination desired for any kind of fight.

[Lumadurin]

As it stands WAR are back to top self DPS king

On WHAT planet?
It's like a 5% difference and yet they bring absolutely NONE of the utility.
Also, WAR can't MT AND do damage in savage at all unless you want to give your healers headaches, because the vast majority of their damage can only be achieved in DPS stance. About 30-45% of their damage comes from Fell Cleave.
Plus, the bulk of their damage is funneled into their Berserk windows. Meaning you get punished extremely hard if mechanics require you to move away from the boss, or if you fumble an input.