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  1. #741
    Player
    Atmora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    145
    Character
    Video Games
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Svabodnik View Post
    Minus the people moving to hit positionals, I suppose, unless you've got everybody set on the same back corner, which then still brings up the problem of needing to move halfway through the boss in order to regain access to the rear, which depending on the state of your GCD makes it no different than just reacting to the boss turning to begin with. Anyways, my initial post wasn't meant to be so caught up on the positionals issue, or any specific fight for that matter, but was a more general overarching take on the impact fight mechanics can make on the viability of MNK vs. SAM.
    A good monk can hit 90% of their positionals at least in any fight was my point.
    (0)

  2. #742
    Player
    Svabodnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Volga Svyatogorovich
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Atmora View Post
    A good monk can hit 90% of their positionals at least in any fight was my point.
    And I'd wholeheartedly agree with that, and for most fights I'd wager the number is even higher than that. The reason for why I brought it up is that a MNK that is applied to practically every single weaponskill missed, for up to 30% of that WS's potency a pop, whereas SAMs in a similar situation may luck out and not need to use Gekko or Kasha for 2-5 GCDs. I don't mean to come off like I'm splitting hairs here, but depending on the fight mechanics, especially when compounded with the other three points I've mentioned (party composition, presence or lack of heavy raidwide damage, fight downtime) I'd say it helps SAM be quite a bit more versatile in its role. Not that I'm holding it against SAM, mind you.
    (0)

  3. #743
    Player
    Darian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    48
    Character
    Darian Goodlow
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 80
    Lol. How are you not hitting positional on O2 savage? Just beat it on SAM with no problems getting into position when needed. It sounds like your waiting way too long to move. Also don't forget Sam DOES have positional too and kenki lost is a lot of dps lost for SAM. SAM is dealing with the same stuff every other melee is. No one is special here.
    (0)

  4. #744
    Player
    Svabodnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Volga Svyatogorovich
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Darian View Post
    (...)
    What? Did you actually read what I wrote? a) OV2, specifically 100GS, was an example of a mechanic that forces people to move to a face of a boss, and not an example of a fight where executing positionals is difficult. b) SAM does have positionals on Gekko and Kasha, which compose approx. one in four of their GCDs (outside of Midare Setsugekka). Not sure why everyone is so caught up on the positionals issue, but I'll take that as credit that my other three points are sound.
    (0)

  5. #745
    Player
    Darian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    48
    Character
    Darian Goodlow
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 80
    ALL melee lose dps on 100GS. Again monk is not special and just like the other dps. If your unable to hit most of your positional on that super scripted fight then it sounds like you don't know the fight and need to study it more. World 1st was able to clear the hardest fight O4s with a monk and not a SAM. So I'm having a hard time understanding what's wrong with MNK. Or how you can say MNK needs buffs and SAM needs nerfs.
    (3)

  6. #746
    Player
    Svabodnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Volga Svyatogorovich
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Darian View Post
    If your unable to hit most of your positional on that super scripted fight then it sounds like you don't know the fight and need to study it more.
    Read:
    Quote Originally Posted by Svabodnik View Post
    (...)and not an example of a fight where executing positionals is difficult(...)
    *****

    Quote Originally Posted by Darian View Post
    Or how you can say MNK needs buffs and SAM needs nerfs.
    Read:
    Quote Originally Posted by Svabodnik View Post
    (...)This isn't to say that I'm on the "nerf SAM!" bandwagon. Personally, if I've got gripes about MNK it's due to its large number of near-useless and/or contradictory abilities (...), how downright clunky RoF makes the rotation, and how the damage is heavily dependent on both RNG and party composition (...). Of course, these are all issues completely separate from the existence of SAM(...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Svabodnik View Post
    (...)Not that I'm holding it against SAM, mind you.
    If there is an issue with misunderstanding it, let me spell it out more clearly: I am not saying "nerf SAM" or "buff MNK".
    (1)

  7. #747
    Player
    KingFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    101
    Character
    Arc Papillon
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    A fight where a Monk can hit every positional and not lose GL isn't a fight, it's a transendence into Rhalgar himself, and using whatever "boss" before you as a puching bag for your demo of the true Fist of the Destroyer.

    Seriously tho, all this fuss over about 100 DPS? Being hardcore sounds tough. To me that's just a few more seconds of enjoying the Boss's theme. Because that's essentially what it comes down to.

    Btw, that 100, is that an average parse over Susanoo and Lakshmi? If, it'll be interesting to see how the Monk stacks up in Omega, considering your less ****ed than usual. Gg to BLM tho.
    (0)

  8. #748
    Player
    Shiroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    871
    Character
    Ohlala Chica
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Darian View Post
    Yeah. Once ppl saw world 1st clear had a monk and not a single sam the whole thread got pointless very quickly.
    But like said, when do you need mnk over Sam? mostly when under- geared for 1st clears,.., not for speed farming / kills / fflogs..., where most of the time will be spent after that 1st clear
    (0)

  9. #749
    Player
    Leonus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    677
    Character
    Kenrir Amnis
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
    But like said, when do you need mnk over Sam? mostly when under- geared for 1st clears,.., not for speed farming / kills / fflogs..., where most of the time will be spent after that 1st clear
    Yea, but 100 dps difference between mnk/Sam will not be enough to sway a group from picking up a mnk if they are truly looking to Farm.

    You come off as believing mnk and other jobs should be equal to Sam in farming/fflogs recording parties. Mnk and other jobs will get the kills just fine (mostly). We now do know for a FACT that Sam is not the end-all-be-all for everything.
    (6)

  10. #750
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
    But like said, when do you need mnk over Sam? mostly when under- geared for 1st clears,.., not for speed farming / kills / fflogs..., where most of the time will be spent after that 1st clear
    Except for MCH, all DPS are good picks for farming runs, because people are typically overgeared already. Your argument has no legs to stand on.
    (2)

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