To the DPS META and please be reasonable with arguments

[NovaLevossida]

When I'm getting hit in the face and my Fire IVs are getting interrupted with Lucid/Diversion having been used on cooldown, maybe you need to tank better because it's a net DPS loss when I'm not dropping magical bombs on the target.

That said, if you are tanking, do as much DPS as you want. I'll never be offended by efficiency.

[DRKoftheAzure]

When I'm getting hit in the face and my Fire IVs are getting interrupted with Lucid/Diversion having been used on cooldown, maybe you need to tank better because it's a net DPS loss when I'm not dropping magical bombs on the target.

That said, if you are tanking, do as much DPS as you want. I'll never be offended by efficiency.

Then stop using AoEs and you wouldn't lose AS MUCH DPS! Simple as that. Tanks have hard time holding aggro on trash mobs to the point where it is better for that 1 guy spamming AoE spells while also needing to focus down 1 target to let healer do more than just healing even in big pulls!

[KDSilver]

Savage is Tuesday.
If I have time to dps when I'll understand the mecanics and see when are the downtimes I will.

Not my type to sit and watch.
+ I want to be as efficient as possible for my group.

And we all are expecting us to provide a good performance to beat the new savage.
So nope nope nope.

[FallenShadows]

So is there an argument here about losing agro because you're dpsing too much as a tank? I find that highly irrelevant, I'm able to run through everything basically "pushing" my dps, even as main tank, and agro is the least of my concerns. Its more of "Can I stay alive with this..."

[Zohnax]

DO NOT EXPECT HEALERS AND TANKS TO DPS!!! That is not their role. Tanks are the meat shields that hold the aggro so that the boss doesn't decide to try eat the beatsticks that you are, and healers generally make sure everyone is topped off and provides some group buffs to help with DPS and damage mitigation. If the boss is like 10% or 5%HP expect both tanks and maybe 1 healer to DPS to burn boss down.

This is ignorant and rude for you to get on here and tell people what their roles are when you did not design them. How does a healer or tank progress through solo instances with only healing and only holding aggro and taking damage? They don't; they DPS. It's also very naive of you to think that tanks and healers have enough potential burst DPS to burn down a boss from 10~5% HP. That kind of contribution comes from DPS'ing as applicable from throughout the entire fight.

Then stop using AoEs and you wouldn't lose AS MUCH DPS! Simple as that. Tanks have hard time holding aggro on trash mobs to the point where it is better for that 1 guy spamming AoE spells while also needing to focus down 1 target to let healer do more than just healing even in big pulls!

No, tanks just need to learn to hold hate better. I did it just fine while leveling DRK before they buffed enmity. In fact, the only time I lost aggro is when a RDM would burst one mob, but that's what provoke and more hate combos are for. In fairness to tanks, it would be more convenient if the Enemy List should Enmity for each mob as it does in the Party List, rather than having to target them individually.

Also, from your first post to this one, suddenly you're worried about healers being able to do more? That's a bit hypocritical and really undermines your entire argument.

Long story short: There are higher levels of skill in playing roles/jobs. Just because you may not want to work to achieve higher levels, doesn't mean others should be scrutinized for doing so or that it's wrong.

[Ventok]

While I think OP expressed it terribly, I get the sentiment behind this thread. I think tanks and healers should DPS during downtime/rotation, but it's when DPS expectations are forced on them is where the problem comes in.

I play tanks to be a meat shield, to be a wall and to laugh at any damage thrown at me. But I've met too many players who grief me or other tanks when the tank doesn't get X amount of DPS numbers in ACT. Sure, in Savage where a slim margin exists between success and enrage, it's warranted. But in Expert roulette, players should feel free to DPS as comfortably as they like (which is where I've seen those types of interactions).

It's a small amount of times I've seen this happen, but it's silly to expect DPS numbers out of a non DPS role in anything but Savage and maybe Extreme.

[Fannah]

A long time ago, there was a thread about the fact all classes in this game are actually DPS classes before everything else, then they have just a speciality to add to complete the team.
And bosses life bars are made according to the dps every members will bring.

Tanks :
1) Tanks are asked to manage aggro to always be 1rst in the enmity system --> so the fight is not chaotic and every role can manage their own role better
2) Then they are asked to do their best to survive, so the Healer will be able to optimize his own role (will see later)
3) If 1 and 2 are done, you can't do anything more than optimizing your dps, so you do to show some respect to your teammates optimizing themselves their role. -> if you want to play it cool, no problem, you are the leader, others can ask you to go faster then and you can still decide what to do next and explaining them you are tired, etc.

Healers :
1) Healers are asked to manage the life pool (and status) of their allies in order to survive the time of the battle (not to slack, watching the green HP bars going up and down)
2) They have to manage the enmity they generate themselves to help the tank to don't lose it to don't make the fight chaotic.
3) If 1 and 2 are made, they can dps. And as all dps, they can dps better according to how they do it. If you don't dps, it means you are slacking, not playing your role. Or it would mean you agree a tank just stop attacking if he is still 1rst in enmity "in order to keep TP to get more aggro when needed" for exemple.

Note : Managing the life pool of your allies means you do what it takes to make them never die. You can just have a whole fight not using a single heal and only dps if you know they will never die, which is all what matter. I'll take a shitty exemple, but a dungeon like Sastasha doesn't need any heal during the small enemy pulls if you use your dps skills. And between 2 pulls, the life regen is way enough.

[Lyrai_Celestine]

While I think OP expressed it terribly, I get the sentiment behind this thread. I think tanks and healers should DPS during downtime/rotation, but it's when DPS expectations are forced on them is where the problem comes in.

I have this sentiment too. Being used to DPSing as a Healer who can alternate seamlessly between healing and DPSing, there are times when the healer does nothing to help the DPS and just stood there, and I too, sometimes ask for my healer to at least try use a DPS spell when I am in good health as a Tank. Just one or two DPS spells instead of standing still and I'm happy enough personally ^^

But I've met too many players who grief me or other tanks when the tank doesn't get X amount of DPS numbers in ACT. Sure, in Savage where a slim margin exists between success and enrage, it's warranted.

This is strange. So far on my Primal EX runs no one bashes me for not doing enough DPS as a Tank. I tried using a DPS stance in Susano EX. It works, but if the healer is being overwhelmed, I'd rather stay in Tank Stance and survive better. I should not expect "Savage hardcore level healers" in places like these anyway

[Fannah]

I have this sentiment too. Being used to DPSing as a Healer who can alternate seamlessly between healing and DPSing, there are times when the healer does nothing to help the DPS and just stood there, and I too, sometimes ask for my healer to at least try use a DPS spell when I am in good health as a Tank. Just one or two DPS spells instead of standing still and I'm happy enough personally ^^

+1, no one annoys healers to just dps in a basic way. What we hate is to see someone acting like speaking on facebook or watching a movie on his second screen while others are carrying him using the argument of being healer.

[Lyrai_Celestine]

+1, no one annoys healers to just dps in a basic way. What we hate is to see someone acting like speaking on facebook or watching a movie on his second screen while other are carrying him using the argument of being healer.

Mhmm. It's mostly related to lazy healers, although I don't find them often in Stormblood. I get the sentiment in low-level dungeons, but I prefer casting a lot of Stone just to finish this dungeon faster!

If anyone asks how I DPS as a healer? I am like...
Cure II Regen Assize Holy Aero III Cure II Holy Holy Cure II Stone IV!~

I already felt like both a Healer and DPS at the same time and every enemy melts before my white magic! What a good time to be a healer. ^^