Why is NIN considered OP or highly viable?

[Ryaz]

So its all based around that one sole debuff?

In higher levels, their aggro management is also a huge bonus. When tanks get more threat from them and DPS can drop threat thanks to them, they don't have to worry about throttling their damage, so their threat management abilities lead (indirectly) to more group damage as well.

[Shurrikhan]

Its DPS is the least deterred by mechanics of any melee, and it offers the highest or equal to highest raid DPS contribution of any job.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Also trick attack cd is incredibly convenient since as long as you just use it on cd, you will manage to alligne it with most group buffs.

This 100%. If you start coordinating, every class with a 60s Cooldown like Berserk, Wildfire etc. can time their burst with TA. Fun times.

[Sam26]

Trick attack is essentially an AoE buff like Embolden, Battle Litany, and Brotherhood.

Sry but how is TA in a fight like for example A2s better than the other buffs when they buff all dmg to all adds and not only one?
Buffs always have an advantage compared to a single target debuff when you have multiple piority targets that have to die at the same time. The Value of the Buffs increase in these situations.
The Add phase in A12s is another good example for this aswell as A9s.

yes. Also nin dps tie with mnk.

Nope they don't, if you are reffering to the SSS dummy tests there are some things that aren't accounted.
1. Nin is buffed by TA while the MNK isn't, 20 sec TA uptime is huge in such a short parse with a pot/opener burst.
2. MNK doesn't have his benefit from Brotherhood which increases his dps in a Party (chakra procs).

In a realistic fight MNK would also benefit from TA, his Brotherhood (chakra from partymembers) and his overall better sustain dps.
Immo it's the only job that comes atleast a bit close to SAM while bringing Mantra and Brotherhood for the grp.

So its all based around that one sole debuff?

yes, NIN=TA which is sad in my opinion.

[Oscura]

Sry but how is TA in a fight like for example A2s better than the other buffs when they buff all dmg to all adds and not only one?
Buffs always have an advantage compared to a single target debuff when you have multiple piority targets that have to die at the same time. The Value of the Buffs increase in these situations.
The Add phase in A12s is another good example for this aswell as A9s.

Ah yes A2S. One fight of twelve. One out of twelve fights in the Alexander raid pool is the one time that Trick Attack is less valuable. That is already the massive problem with this reply. You are implying that just because TA is not useful in 1/12 fights in a raid tier, that it is not better than buffs. You are seriously telling me that because TA is useful in only 11/12 fights, it is not as good as a buff.

It is true that buffs will always contribute more when dealing with an add phase or multiple targets at once. The only problem is that the more demanding content in this game more or less comes down to hitting a single target. Add phases never last long enough to seriously deviate from the fact that Trick Attack is amazing. Even in the A12S example you listed, realistically the add phase is maybe 10% of the fight depending on your group speed. For the other 90% of the fight, TA is superior in every single way. For A9S, it's even worse. Adds die so quickly that TA can still be used on the boss basically almost always on cooldown. It is useful at every stage of that fight.

I'm sorry I didn't state that TA isn't better than buffs at certain periods, but the fact of the matter remains that if you are hitting a single target, which is the grand majority of endgame fights in this game, TA is superior. It has a lower cooldown than basically any buff in the other classes can offer. Litany (180s CD) by itself is a crit buff, which can't even compete with a flat damage buff. Embolden (120s CD) is a 10% physical only buff (which also damage bonus to caster) which decays every 4 seconds. Brotherhood (90s CD) is a 5% physical only buff which does not even apply to the caster, albeit it grants chakra stacks but let's not try to pretend that makes up for the fact it's weaker than Embolden or TA. Embolden is stronger than it in every way until 12 seconds, so for 3 seconds for its entire duration (15s) is Brotherhood better. Brotherhood's advantage is that it has a shorter CD than Embolden.

Meanwhile, Trick Attack (60s CD) buffs all types of damage, not specifically physical, and it has no decay. Please do not cherry-pick through my post.

[Elleia]

It has threat manipulation but I would think at high levels of play threat is a non issue...and even in low levels of play I dont find it being a bother enough to use skills on

Everyone has touched on trick attack, but I will say that shadewalker is also incredible utility-wise. At all levels, it allows the tank to drop/go without tank stance and use less of their enmity combo in favor of their damage combo. This increases the tank's damage output, so it is overall an increase in raid DPS.

I've been working on leveling my PLD/DRK to 70 and have yet to see a NIN use their enmity tools (as well as other DPS who won't use diversion/LD), forcing me to sit in tank stance and use my aggro combo far more than I need to. It can be frustrating, and I always give my comm to a DPS properly using these tools - they are part of your toolkit, so give them a try!

[Sam26]

...

wow no reason to get agressive immediately I just stated that the value of buffs may vary depending on the fight. Where did I say that TA is not a good buff??? I didn't mention the value of TA in a word beside in A2s where the buffs most likely surpass it.
(My first line, the other lines where general speaking)
I said that a Buff is much more reliable as a Debuff in general because of certain situation not speaking about TA vs Litany/embolden/brotherhood beside the example with a2s. I also just said that the value of Litany/Embolden/Brotherhood increases in A12s at the Addphase and A9s so where did I mention that TA is worse in this fights?

dunno...

[Oscura]

wow no reason to get agressive immediately I just stated that the value of buffs may vary depending on the fight. Where did I say that TA is not a good buff??? I didn't mention the value of TA in a word beside in A2s where the buffs most likely surpass it.
(My first line, the other lines where general speaking)
I said that a Buff is much more reliable as a Debuff in general because of certain situation not speaking about TA vs Litany/embolden/brotherhood beside the example with a2s. I also just said that the value of Litany/Embolden/Brotherhood increases in A12s at the Addphase and A9s so where did I mention that TA is worse in this fights?

dunno...

Of course buffs have advantageous situations. I thought that was obvious. Albeit it has absolutely nothing to do with my post. My post was specifically indicating that trick attack exceeds buffs in performance in a grand majority of situations. That much is true.

[MomoOG]

In a realistic fight MNK would also benefit from TA, his Brotherhood (chakra from partymembers) and his overall better sustain dps.
Immo it's the only job that comes atleast a bit close to SAM while bringing Mantra and Brotherhood for the grp.

This is bad reasoning. They were talking about solo dps. The TA damage that the MNK receives during a raid is actually counted towards NINs indirect damage not MNKs damage in a raid setting to decide balance (you can't double dip and count the TA damage twice). Also, you are making the assumption that there is always a NIN present. If there is a NIN always present due to guaranteed position for NIN to always be present than that by definition shows there is am imbalance with the NIN class.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Sry but how is TA in a fight like for example A2s better than the other buffs when they buff all dmg to all adds and not only one?

A2s is the only fight in the entire raid tier that you could say that about, and so far nothing in Omega, Lakshmi or Susano had so many adds that Trick Attack wasn't useful.

So basically, Ninja is good in 9/10 scenarios, minus that one fight full of adds. Gotcha.