Halve mana on stance swap

[Marxam]

How about no tank loses their gauge/mana when tank swapping? I think that would be better.

[Tegernako]

How about no tank loses their gauge/mana when tank swapping? I think that would be better.

Of course it would be.

But the very idea of it is anathema to people, especially when talking about warrior.

[Falar]

I would like there to be NO penalty on Grit reapplication.

Stance dancing is forced now that Blood Price sucks so bad. Whenever Delirium is up dropping grit for BW is a must.

[eagledorf]

How are you calculating the potency loss? And why do you only talk about the stance dance penalty? Yes it's one of the biggest changes to war, but how about no utility? The huge loss of self sustain? The most complicated yet does the same dps as pld or even lower?

These potencies are simple enough to calculate. PLD's is the average potency per GCD (253/GCD times 2), DRK is using 2400 MP = 140 potency because Dark Arts is 140 potency for most skills (except Carve and Split basically) plus the average potency per GCD, WAR is assuming you lose FC potency for the gauge you lose going into Deliverance and IB potency going into Defiance.

When you say "WAR loses it's entire kit", this is true, but that's simply the way WAR gets numbers. All that matters at the end of the day are the numbers you put out and the damage you take.

For example, Sword Oath is a 15% DPS buff on PLD. Deliverance is only 5%. Fell Cleave being a Deliverance-only skill is how the tank stance penalties are balanced despite Deliverance being so much weaker than Sword Oath on the surface.

In the case of DRK you lose Blood Weapon. DRK's penalty on WAR would be like if you couldn't use Berserk at all in Defiance and your gauge generation was halved, but you could still use Fell Cleave. In fact, Blood Weapon is a bigger DPS boost than Berserk so it would be even worse than that. They just have a different mechanic for getting the same penalty. (On top of this, DRK generates gauge somewhat slower in Grit if you don't use TBK, which in turn means you're using more MP, but that gets complicated depending on if you need TBK for mitigation).

There is a legitimate complaint about the current state of WAR. That is that you don't have a utility ability that you can use in Deliverance like Intervention or The Blackest Knight. WAR should have something to support the party as OT that can be used in Deliverance. It's also true that you can't use Inner Beast in Deliverance, but if you go down that road it's also true that WAR still has a vastly superior mitigation toolkit than DRK no matter how you cut it and easily the strongest mitigation kit in tank stance of any tank. I suppose you could also argue DRK not losing anything turning their tank stance off is slightly unbalanced, but since their penalty is so big turning it on that's only a problem for faceroll content where you use Grit for your first Unmend for extra hate and then leave it off for the rest of the entire fight.

Complaining about the gauge stance change penalty is not a legitimate complaint, DRK and PLD players had to deal with being punished for stance changes for all of HW while WAR players didn't. Some kind of balancing of WAR's overpowered stance dancing was long overdue.

I suppose you could complain that tank stances aren't all just free and oGCD, but that's a path that SE is clearly not interested in going down for whatever reason. They certainly aren't going to discard everything they did in 4.0 and do that instead until the next expansion at the earliest.

[_Pigzig]

I would like there to be NO penalty on Grit reapplication.

Stance dancing is forced now that Blood Price sucks so bad. Whenever Delirium is up dropping grit for BW is a must.

Thing is the developers purpose for Grit and other tank stances is still baffling. I feel like they want people staying in one stance in the first place, so making it easier to swap would cause people to do the exact opposite.

[Tegernako]

snip

Why is someone who has a level 70 PLD but only a level 54 WAR telling WAR players without even being at level 70 that we have it good?

Never mind that the majority of casual, hardcore, and forum posters here are against it never mind the numerous other players from other classes that support removing it.

Again, YOUR SOLE argument for it is really "WAR has great mitigation" soo...I guess that means DRK and PLD can't MT too? Is this tiny mitigation advantage SO important that it makes up for this boring, zero utility, class?

Great, you can spend an entire fight spamming IB, this proves without a doubt that WAR is doing okay...somehow but guess what?

PLD still offers an incredible array of amazing skills that offer unparalleled team utility for everyone. Something WAR can't even begin to copy it, it does all of that and somehow just barely manages to still MT, it's a miracle truly.

Supposing somehow WAR does have a tiny mitigation advantage, it sure as hell doesn't make WAR fine. Ninja does less damage then SAM but ninja also offers incredible team utility which negates SAM's damage advantage to make it equally if not more useful.

And maybe you are forgetting that automatic 20% damage reduction they get 100% of the time in tank stance? But hey, IB does it for six seconds for 50 gauge that gets halved for switching making it so that that we can't use if we don't switch at anything other then 100% gauge, that's almost OP.


DRK basically can't lose gauge unless they spend it, PLD uses it so little we have threads dedicated to finding better usages for it. But hey, WAR who makes the most use of their gauge needs to be nerfed because stance dancing would be so OP in SB where WAR offers...nothing special to a team.

[ovIm]

But mathematically it is better balanced?

For example, look at the stance swap. PLD: 506 potency, DRK: 425 potency, WAR: ~400 potency. That's way better balanced than in the past when it was WAR: 0 potency.

Tank stance penalty: PLD: 25%, WAR: 22%, DRK: 23%. Certainly better than when it was at any point in ARR or HW.

It may not be perfect, but it's definitely better.

There is something I miss in those calculations all the time. The fact that both DRK and PLD tankstance functions fundamentally different than WARs.

You can technically use DRK/PLD tankstance as a CD due to its nature of having a damage reduction applied. WARs increases max hp, but does not fill them up, forcing the WAR to add another CD to replentish those HP / mitigate incoming damage if required.

I, personally, think you can't really compare WAR and DRK/PLD tankstances, but of course, this is where many opinions split, and I can understand why. A tankstance is a tankstance after all.

Additionally, if at all, WAR should have a different penalty for switching stances then. We have 8 skills that require gauge, whereas DRK has 3 (2 WS 1 CD) and PLD has 2 (2 CDs). Being locked out of your toolkit never feels fun imho.

[Tegernako]

We have 8 skills that require gauge, whereas DRK has 3 (1 WS 1 CD) and PLD has 2 (2 CDs). Being locked out of your toolkit never feels fun imho.

Actually it's a bit worse.

We have 10 skills that rely on a stance, 8 that require gauge, 4 specific to defiance, 4 that are specific to deliverance, 2 that function differently depending on the stance, and 4 that take 50 gauge total.

PLD has two skills that use gauge and DRK has 3.