The Raid community as we know it

[Eli85]

The problem with the raiding community--and I used to be a part of it--is not the message from some raiders, but how they say it, the words they choose, and the tone they employ. MrHappy's guest is indicative of this problem. The way raiders speak to each other, this would not pass in any workplace and if friends started to talk that way, they'd find themselves friendless rather quickly.

Now are all raiders like that? No, of course not. I used to run my raid teams on the pillars of respect and maturity. However, this is the exception, not the norm, and for a lot of people--including myself, an ex-raider--it is far too stressful to bother with raiding outside of PUGs (where I can freely not have to deal with the immature players in voice and can ignore chat / whispers in-game).

Until the upper raiding community realizes the toxic behaviour they promote, the top end raid community will keep getting smaller and smaller. It's a shame too, because raiding is such a fun activity. It's not fun when raiders treat others so deplorably.

Also, in case anyone brings it up, being aggressive, yelling at people, threatening others, this does not make anyone play better nor will they learn. I'm a teacher by trade. This sort of "methodology" only pushes learners away.

[missybee]

Hence in a raid, if there is a wipe, identify the problem, not WHO cause the problem. Not enough DPS, ask who can do better. Can't heal through damage, ask if anyone can switch with the healer. Tank is instant-killed on a certain mechanic, switch tanks, etc. If someone you play with simply can't play any role, as apparent by always taking dirt naps as DPS, then perhaps that person needs to try a different DPS. You get absolutely nowhere by kicking people because they aren't the top 1% DPS on a third party unverifiable website.

How about instead of that, do what works best for your own static?

I'm not sure what you are on about with regard to switching and all that jazz. Roles don't tend to be super malleable in a savage-tier static (particularly this early on when most people only have a few 70s). What does the meta dictate is the best? Learn how to play it well and then bring some of those jobs. We aren't talking about running optimized Omega normals here. No one cares about that.

[akaneakki]

.Also, in case anyone brings it up, being aggressive, yelling at people, threatening others, this does not make anyone play better nor will they learn. I'm a teacher by trade. This sort of "methodology" only pushes learners away.

Okay let me generalize then....
Example one: I had a whm in lvl 67 dungeon, healing and dpsing hard and I was still alive. The SCH I had before didn't dps and I never expected it but I died to the trash pull before first bos 5 times just saying. You see this is where I will generalize.... Hes like that because he doesn't need to do try, because many in here say so.... In extreme primals it's fine to wipe a whole group till time almost over, as long it's dead before duty end that's all what matters, I can even quote people in this thread saying this... Then you have the person who comes in a group when everyone have experience but that last giy doesn't need to do it, as long hes having fun, why not ruin it for the rest right? Want me to quote that too?

Honestly I think majority here who raids on this forum isn't even part of the 1% everyone talks about.. I mean the top world raiders who goes for world first. The rest doesn't. In fact since EVERY raider is so toxic, why do people even ask them for help? Yet look at their guides or such things? If people are so much less toxic, why not just follow them and play like they do? Nobody said anything you need to do what raiders do, do your own thing but don't expect to clear when everyone in the group has a lazy mentality in it. Join static with your own mentality, shouldn't that make you happy?

[YitharV2]

It was an interesting discussion I thought.

I was much more offended when i listened to some casual groups podcast for healing (NEST? Reddit is always wanking em' off) and they were giving horrible, awful advice. I mean if you ever watched their LOL FUNNY raids you wouldn't listen to anything they said but I do worry for the more inexperienced looking around for some healer advice and stumbling onto something like that.

Yeah, there was a reddit thread created by someone in one of the Discord servers I'm in. While I don't necessarily agree with the way he went about it, I think I sort of agree with his point, which someone else nicely stated in a comment reply.

The problem isnt healer should dps vs shouldn't dps. It's when you dont play efficiently with random people. At that point it's not just your time its 3-7 other people.(Not counting 24 mans cause that's another ballpark). However, if you're on a team whos ok with you not dpsing as a healer becuase your team isn't out to be cutting edge, then that's fine. Cause at that point your team knows about it and shouldn't mind it. Also, if they get results, much like NEST does, then go for it.

Now on my own personal stance, healers should dps to be efficient. Hopefully with healer dps scaling off of MND in SB. Coupled with the removal of CS it should help some healers make that final leap into dpsing more comfortably. As now you won't get caught in CS at a bad time when you need to heal. We will just need to see how it pans out in the next few weeks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ull_of_myself/

This is a response to that. And I sort of agree with him. Especially with Omega recently, there are sometimes mechanics that stack on top of each other so playing reactively isn't the best. I'd say the main thing I'm upset is that this advice may be followed by newer players who don't know any better.

What? I mean it, the question is.. what?
There are more people who spread out bad play than ''toxic'' play that you say. In fact you dont need to be doing that 1% to even raid, yo can be that 10% of the player community. You know what triggers me? All these people asking for nerf and such for a main story trial, doesn't that tell you anything? In fact... we know who's to blame for them not bothering. You see it here, in game and you see it in other threads. ''It's just a game'' ''no need to bother because it's just a game'' You see, I don't disagree it's a game, however, doesnt mean you should have attitude of not trying. When people sponsor bad play this happens...

Yep.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...being/dg7jnbe/

[Uebru]

@OP
Way to generalize an entire community. Getting all worked up for nothing, so idiotic.

[Pondera]

I have a solution. Chat options > general chat channel > party/alliance chat switched OFF.

Let them scream into that uncaring void for a bit

[Selova]

Generalizing a entire community because you got your delicate little feelings hurt by some words said by a hardcore raider on a podcast...really? If the way he does things and says things somehow surprises you, you've clearly never raided on a hardcore, world/server first level, like ever. Xeno doesn't sugar coat things, if you aren't performing at a acceptable level or constantly messing mechanics he will bluntly call you out. This kind of stuff isn't new. I'm trying to figure out why you are so triggered by what someone that you will likely never play with says about something that doesn't affect you.

[AlexionSkylark]

Actually, there are TONS of people out there who thinks they need to behave like the world-class raiders do, with the same ammount of toxicity and ill behavior, to clear stuff. You see it all the time in PFs and even some midcore and casual statics. It's absurd.

[NewSinz]

1. Don't take Xeno as god. He plays well and knows his class. I notice a lot of people hold him up on this crazy pedestal.
2. He is specifically talking about his group and how they treat each other, not the community as a whole.
3. I know people who are just like him. They are "elitist" so to speak... but when it comes to clearing content they have every right to be.
4. Often the "Jerks" of the raid community also tend to be the most helpful. If you know them and are in the same FC as them and have questions they are usually willing to help. They want people to be better.
5. Ill bet he is actually a nice guy in general. I don't know him nor will I ever meet him in game or out but he seems like a decent enough guy.

Not every raider is out to get you and make you feel miserable about yourself or treat you like you're a lesser human.

[amihavingfunyet]

Hence in a raid, if there is a wipe, identify the problem, not WHO cause the problem. Not enough DPS, ask who can do better. Can't heal through damage, ask if anyone can switch with the healer. Tank is instant-killed on a certain mechanic, switch tanks, etc. If someone you play with simply can't play any role, as apparent by always taking dirt naps as DPS, then perhaps that person needs to try a different DPS. You get absolutely nowhere by kicking people because they aren't the top 1% DPS on a third party unverifiable website.

Just switching classes/roles is not always an option. Sure a tank can switch from ie WAR to DRK during a raid tier without problem. But you can't just switch a DPS to a healer. All the drops that DPS (and the healer they are going to replace) got will be wasted and this hurts your progression.
And you really shouldn't sugar coat it too if people don't perform at a level needed to clear the content. But instead of only saying "u suck" you should try and find solutions that will work for your group. Send the DPS that doesn't do enough DPS out to learn their rotation on a dummy. Maybe change some strategies so someone else handles a mechanic. Maybe have your tanks switch their OT/MT position. Have your healers rethink their approach.
But if you just tolerate someone underperforming (this is relative to your groups performance, not absolute measured to the world's top players.)/constantly tripping over mechanics this will drag down everyone else and eventually your static will die from it, I've seen it happen enough times.