Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

[Vincent_Mateus]

I don't find the playstyle thrilling at all. Jumping feels clunkier now because we have more positionals, and the animation lock of mirage dive coupled with our skill speed feels gross. It's also annoying to not have the luxury of moving our jumps a GCD or two around (weak) bfb, and or Dragon Sight because of the urgency to build LotD as fast as possible, so we don't lose it to phase changes or mechanics. None of that is thrilling or fun to me personally

[IchiExorz]

What if BoTD (the actual skill) would change into LoTD once we have 4 eyes and Geirskogul gives us an eye?
That and Nastrond becomes like a 400-500 potency attack (single target if necessary.)

DRG is indeed a high risk & low reward class.
But I feel like with these changes maybe our high risk would be a bit less risky and we'd get a slightly better reward. And some QoL change.

[Dualgunner]

No, you wont because a 75th percentile SAM is the same as a 95th percentile DRG.

I've also seen you're logs and sorry to say, they are not very impressive. Feel free to conjure up any excuse or report me for slander of whatever but you shouldn't say things with such conviction that you haven't proven first.

Are we reading the same logs? Cuz...if I'm not high or insane...that's 97th percentile average.

[Agrieus]

Personally, I'd like to know why dragonfire dive still isn't counted as a jump. Because it is...but isn't...for reasons, I suppose. Allowing that skill to be counted as jump would help some in terms of getting the eyes going, as well as increasing it's general dps via BotD. But even so...I'm not certain it would be enough to make Dragoon as a job flow a little better. I'm also turned off by the fact that when we're having to reapply buffs/debuffs, while there's still a decent amount of time left on all of them (assuming mechanics aren't getting in the way), which is also disrupting the feel and flow of the job. It irks me having to rebuff heavy thrust when I still have 5 or more seconds on it...but I don't have enough time to run through another full combo, unless I just skip out on a wheeling thrust + fang and claw and just do a back to back full thrust set...which ironically, has turned out to be a dps increase by doing this (by roughly 50 dps on average). But it's not worth doing because by the time I'm going in to reapply heavy thrust and the chaos combo, everything has pretty much already fallen off. And in a fight with mechanics (and with the skill speed in our current gear) it's just not viable in an actual fight.

[Priska]

So NIN gets Huton to manage and it defaults at 70 seconds and then gets Armor Crush which refreshes it for another 30 seconds. Meanwhile DRG gets Blood of the Dragon on a 30 second recast that starts up with 15 seconds on the clock. And our two skills (Wheeling Thrust & Fang and Claw) on refresh it for 10 each. Both requiring a full combo for each which only totals 20 seconds altogether and to top it off our max time is only 30 seconds. Why do we have a 30 second cap? Why are both of our skills only a 10 second addition to the clock? Given how vital the whole thing is to DRG you'd think they'd have given us some leeway.

To be fair I'm also only speaking from a 60 and lower point of view so maybe this works out better after hitting 70 but it really doesn't feel very good right now.

On another note, while I don't have Dragon Sight yet just looking at it makes me feel like it's a stupid gimmick. You can't use it while solo and you've got to hope someone will stay within range of you when you're in a group and you've got to pick the person or use a macro for it. Just seems like something someone thought was a neat idea and tossed in for us.

[Soulforge]

snip for length

Maintaining BotD is easier at 64 with Lance Mastery. Anytime you're synced to 60 in 4.0 Dragoon will feel incomplete. I've come to see the design of Dragon Sight just as frustrating as Nastrond, personally. They took our old traited Blood for Blood (30% damage dealt, 15% damage taken,) cut the damage dealt in half and reduced the damage taken to 10%.

Then they gave us Dragon Sight, where we got 10 of the 15% dealt back, and the other 5% dealt goes to a party member, on a longer cooldown to boot. It feels like cooldown filler meant to turn us into support dps, codependent on a fellow melee (or tank, when needed) in an expansion that set a goal of removing ability bloat. Most of the frustration you'll likely encounter on 4.0's DRG will be at 70 though, when you have to deal with Dragon Eyes vs fight mechanics.

[Erys]

Are we reading the same logs? Cuz...if I'm not high or insane...that's 97th percentile average.

His are better tho. Even if we had a good laugh in my fc at his 98th susano. I wished my ast gave me that many balances x'D
Anyways, probably they meant that they are not impressive as comparable to samurais. Which I replied to you when you got it confused, to clarify asap that that's not what I meant, so jokes on me for expressing it poorly. If the general samurai playerbase was the average raider, duty finder wouldn't be a sad sad place xP

[CapricaLangley]

IMHO the problem is LotD is bad design. Here's what I would have done: instead of eyes generation based on jumps, they should have based them on geirskogul and nastrond. Every 2 eyes accumulated , your jump cast times reset. When you use your dragon sight buff, any critical by you or your melee mate may generate an additional eye. GG EZ DRG new archetype oGCD burst damage.

[YiznoBergerFett]

stuff

you can dragon sight your chocobo (iirc). also in the 60s you can use both WHeeling thrust and fang & claw after completing a combo string. this helps some of the clunkyness of the class up to that point. dragonsight is cool, i theory but needs a minor range extension.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

IMHO the problem is LotD is bad design. Here's what I would have done: instead of eyes generation based on jumps, they should have based them on geirskogul and nastrond. Every 2 eyes accumulated , your jump cast times reset. When you use your dragon sight buff, any critical by you or your melee mate may generate an additional eye. GG EZ DRG new archetype oGCD burst damage.

Alternatively, have eyes proc from Fang & Claw and Wheeling Thrust once you've completed a fifth combo chain and make it so you can't lose eyes should the boss phase. I also think Dragonfire Dive needs to be brought down to 90s and have Dive Ready added; same with Battle Litany being reduced to 120s. Comparing both against Ninja's arsenal, I don't see the reason for such long cooldowns. I, personally, also want Geirskogul on a shortern cooldown since I feel like I barely use it now, but that is more my own thing.