The Melee DPS Paradigm and why DRG needs some attention

[wereotter]

I want to say that I don't disagree that Dragoons could use a boost, but I feel I need to mention that not all raid utility is built equal. The slashing debuff is no longer quite as valuable as it once was. The reason being is that before Stormblood, for example, bringing a warrior was a massive DPS boost for a ninja since they got the slashing debuff without having to apply it themselves. Now, it's attached to the ninja's DOT, so they have to apply it to keep up maximum DPS. For Samurai, the slashing debuff is attached to one of their sen, so they also have to keep it up. There are really only two jobs in the game that can utilize the effect that can't apply it for themselves, paladin and dark knight. Contrast that with disembowel, and now you have three DPS jobs able to benefit from the effect who aren't able to apply it for themselves on top of you getting a benefit, and this bit of utility is vastly superior.

[BlackThought]

/snipped Contrast that with disembowel, and now you have three DPS jobs able to benefit from the effect who aren't able to apply it for themselves on top of you getting a benefit, and this bit of utility is vastly superior.

This only makes sense in a world with DRG/MCH/BRD raids. And Stormblood seems to hate that configuration.

[Jhett_Magnum]

DRG, NIN, and MNK should be able to do the same amount of DPS or relatively close to one another. It should be a choice of utility (Piercing/Slash/Blunt + magic vulnerability via DK) and play style.
All 4 debuffs should go back to 10%
Battle lit should be a 60 sec recast if it last for 15. Or 120 sec recast if it lasts for 30.

SAM should not be able to put a slashing debuff. However, should keep the identity of highest melee dps.

After that there's no reason to add another melee dps. I mean it'll just complicate things and we'll end up like blizzard with how they buff and nerf every patch.

[Jhett_Magnum]

This only makes sense in a world with DRG/MCH/BRD raids. And Stormblood seems to hate that configuration.

Just like WAR and NIN can put slashing, DRG and R. DPS should too.

[wereotter]

This only makes sense in a world with DRG/MCH/BRD raids. And Stormblood seems to hate that configuration.

Also, apparently, red mage. Though I haven't seen this confirmed outside an earlier post, but it was claimed that their physical moves to piercing damage. Not a massive improvement considering the bulk of their abilities are spells, but an improvement none the less.

DRG, NIN, and MNK should be able to do the same amount of DPS or relatively close to one another. It should be a choice of utility (Piercing/Slash/Blunt + magic vulnerability via DK) and play style.

SAM should not be able to put a slashing debuff. However, should keep the identity of highest melee dps.

That argument assumes that all three melee jobs provide the same amount of raid utility, except they don't. Monks have mantra and blunt resistance down, which are both marginally useful, and brotherhood which becomes less useful the fewer physical DPS you have in your group, and as such should be able to put out higher damage than a ninja or dragoon, but less than a samurai.

[YiznoBergerFett]

i enjoy the class i find the timing on phase shifts on some bosses to be frustrating especially when botd falls off. Im torn between swapping to something else until dragoon gets some attention or just unsubbing until then.

[Jhett_Magnum]

That argument assumes that all three melee jobs provide the same amount of raid utility, except they don't. Monks have mantra and blunt resistance down, which are both marginally useful, and brotherhood which becomes less useful the fewer physical DPS you have in your group, and as such should be able to put out higher damage than a ninja or dragoon, but less than a samurai.

Assuming all 3 can do roughly the same amount of DPS..

Monks should be able to apply some sort of Foe Requiem skill.
DRG ties in physical Phys. Ranged DPS so I mean MNKs could tie in Magic DPS. (Slotted for 2 caster raid groups)

DK adds a magic vulnerability on top Blunt res
I think Monk is fine damage wise. I could be wrong.
Mantra is niche useful. But still good.
IDK to much about brotherhood, but tanks are always there so increase the radius?

TP is useless in this game.
So what's the point of purification?
They should rework that.

[Waliel]

I could see them taking it away from SAM, but if they do that, I could also see them upping their damage even more to compensate for having literally 0 sources of any benefit in a party.

The sad thing is that I can totally see this happening in 4.05 and Squenix calling it balanced.

Assume our base crit rate is 5% (it's not, it's probably ~11-13% at i315 with 1200ish Crit Rate), Litany adds a flat 15% to that. Crit gets better the more you have,so the jump from 5%->20% crit rate (or realistically ~11ish->31%) crit rate is HUGE. Later in the expansion, when our crit rate is closer to 22-25% with optimal melds, the jump from 25->40% crit rate will be really, really good. The hit to IR sucked, but I think they tried spreading that Crit% we lost by giving it to BRD's effects, and also giving us Direct Hit.

Because Litany doesn't give crit damage, 5% to 20% jump is ~5.8% DPS increase while 25% to 40% is ~6.6% for the duration. It's not that big of an increase with gear. And in fact for the people unaware, if crit didn't increase its' damage, crit and Litany would get marginally worse the more you had it. Using previous numbers, a 25% to 40% jump is a ~5.45% DPS increase, as 15% crit would always be +6% additive DPS. Adding 6 to 100 is better than adding 6 to 110.

Also is DH+Crit=1.75 multiplier? Or is it 1.875?

1.75 at base values. A straight critD*1.25.

[wereotter]

Dragon Kick doesn't add magic vulnerability. It used to give INT down but they removed that with the launch of 4.0. Now it only does blunt down.