The Melee DPS Paradigm and why DRG needs some attention

[HoLoFoNo]

Our utility is fine. We get Disembowel, Battle Litany, and Dragon Sight. Litany is one of the most powerful buffs in the game, Dragon Sight is still a free 5% and it's up pretty often. Disembowel still helps MCH and BRD but they're now less reliant on it. These make DRG a better utility DPS than Monk, which only has Brotherhood.

This is a bit misinformed.


Litany is by nature, a RNG buff. It is also 15% Crit rate which means it is the stat itself not the %. So while it is true that it pretty much gets exponentially stronger as the expansion develops, at this point we are at the beginning of the expansion with the lowest max ilvl. Not only that but litany is a 3min CD which means it only gets used 2-3 times per fight, for 20 second uptime. This means it gets a total of 40 - 1 min uptime depending on how fast your group is. However I agree that litany is good, it's not amazing by any means especially not at this stage in the expansion and especially since crit was nerfed so most classes are stacking DHit now AND a lot of DPS lost internal release (and WAR).

Dragon Sight is just bad. Not only is its range bad, it will only contribute about 1% dps on ONE player in a fight. So even if that is a 5k samurai, they are only getting like 50 dps. It's more of a buff for the DRG to make up for the gimped BfB but it still doesn't equal what BfB used to and it has a worse timer.

Piercing is probably the most consistent of the buffs, however as it is now 5%, it isn't as useful as it once was. That isn't to say it isn't useful, but the 2 dps that benefit most from it are the 2 lowest dps. Now, BRD actually does pretty well in fights, better than DRG on average but BRD doesn't even benefit significantly as a large portion of their damage comes from dots. It also only buffs a small part of RDMs rotation.

All in all DRGs 3 'offensive utilites' is less consistent than trick attack, and DRG is like 200-300 dps weaker and cant manipulate agro which is especially important due to the current state of tanks.

[Jonnycbad]

No, it is not. Litany is an RNG based buff, meaning that despite your crit chance going up by 15%, there's still a chance that you might not crit. Any DRG out here who has played DRG in HW could tell you the pain of using both Litany and Internal Release in your opener and still not being able to crit anything outside of the occasional auto attack or true thrust. Litany is also a 180 second cooldown,

You mustn't know how statistics work. On average, the benefit of the ability is still quite potent.


My argument stands, it's still one of the most potent buffs in the game, especially now that Foe's and Hypercharge have been nerfed.

1. Royal Road AoE Balance
2. Trick Attack
3. Battle Litany
4. Brotherhood

[SunnyHirose]

Litany is by nature, a RNG buff. It is also 15% Crit rate which means it is the stat itself not the %.

Clarification: It is a +15% to the actual rate and not the stat (クリティカル発動率 in tooltip, stat is クリティカル. The English version did not change the name of the stat when the change was made in patch 3.0, but they must have changed their minds since then as it has changed from "Critical Hit Rate" to "Critical Hit" without notice in patch 4.0.). If it were to the stat, teams would've felt the where's-my-crits insult on most runs of Alexander; moreover, it would be reflected on your character sheet as with other stat-modifying buffs.

When Litany was added to DRG I mentally filed it under "not thrilling, but nice". Now it does less because crit damage is dialed back, BfB + DS does less than old BfB alone, and we are missing IR (as tiny as that was). I can easily ignore the expansion level reset effects because crits don't wow me that much; my concern is that one can hardly appreciate that these buffs are doing anything in the course of gameplay.

[Jonnycbad]

Assume our base crit rate is 5% (it's not, it's probably ~11-13% at i315 with 1200ish Crit Rate), Litany adds a flat 15% to that. Crit gets better the more you have,so the jump from 5%->20% crit rate (or realistically ~11ish->31%) crit rate is HUGE. Later in the expansion, when our crit rate is closer to 22-25% with optimal melds, the jump from 25->40% crit rate will be really, really good. The hit to IR sucked, but I think they tried spreading that Crit% we lost by giving it to BRD's effects, and also giving us Direct Hit.


Also is DH+Crit=1.75 multiplier? Or is it 1.875?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

ability to avoid mechanics and amount of ranged attacks. .

This bugged me to death too.
If we're talking things like how punishing it is for your job to do mechanics, and how much DPS you have access to at a range, then Ninja and SAM should be below Monk and DRG. They have absolutely punishing job mechanics that can kill your DPS flow if you leave the boss for too long. SEN and Kenki can't even be lost, and Huton might as well be a static buff at this point, you'd have to TRY to lose Huton.

So why is it that Ninja is right on top of Monk with loads of utility, less punishing job mechanics, and more ranged options, and why is DRG so low when they currently have the most punishing system out of every melee?


The only thing I can think of is they didn't playtest these jobs at all before sending them out.

[AlphaDragoon]

This bugged me to death too.
If we're talking things like how punishing it is for your job to do mechanics, and how much DPS you have access to at a range, then Ninja and SAM should be below Monk and DRG.

You forgot he also said that raid utility is a factor. Which means that Samurai having absolutely zero raid utility should have world ending DPS to make up for it. Now Ninja, they are straight up busted with how much damage AND raid utility they get to do.

[vois]

Some Suggestion for drg....
(change Giresgokul CD to 30 sec + able to open an eye) or simply (activate Life of the dragon with 2 unit instead of 4)

lance mastery, increase the 5th tier combo's pot by at least 80.

increase Life of the dragon duration to 40 sec. Increase Nastrond potency to 400+. or 320 with additional dot mechanic of reasonable value.

Grant Dragonfire Dive, "dive ready"

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The most broken job in the game currently is NIN. Considering their utilities, they should be a clear step behind MNK, roughly equal to DRG. ...Maybe buff DS to be 15% on an ally as well.

[Rhyn]

Also is DH+Crit=1.75 multiplier? Or is it 1.875?

1.40*1.25=1.75. So +75%

[Noshpan]

Overall, I'm okay with Dragoon. I'm only mildly sad that we're near the bottom of the dps pool. I have started to encounter people, whenever I mention that Dragoon could use some tweaking, tell me "You've had an entire expansion dedicated to you. It's now Samurai's turn (because it sure as hell ain't Monk's)! So go sit in the corner & be quiet, nobody cares!"

I will admit that Dragoon does have some issues, however. Mostly, I feel that Dragon Sight is too clunky to use. To have to target nearest (usually either tank or melee dps), then switch back to the target I'm attacking, all while staying within range of whomever I'm tethered to for us to benefit from Dragon Sight... Most of the time that simply has not been an option for me.

That being said, Dragoon is still going to be my main (at least until I can get Red Mage to 70, then that may change).