Shirk is amazing. (Ethics)

[Mnemosynia]

So instead of taking shirk, you're taking...what? What is more beneficial to tank dps than being able to tank swap without doing an aggro combo, being able to swap while staying in dps stance? Having to do less aggro combos overall?

Fucking baffling

Rampart
Lv. 8 Ability Instant 90s Reduces damage taken by 20%.
Duration: 20s

Provoke
Lv. 16 Ability Instant 40s Gesture threateningly, placing yourself at the top of a target's enmity list

Convalescence
Lv. 20 Ability Instant 120s Increases own HP recovery via healing magic by 20%.
Duration: 20s

Reprisal
Lv. 32 Ability Instant 60s Lowers target's damage dealt by 10%.
Duration: 5s

Awareness
Lv. 36 Ability Instant 120s Nullifies chance of suffering critical damage.
Duration: 25s


Now i guess ill have to explain why because the critical thinking portion of you head doesn't seem to be intact so we can prolly agree that Rampart, Conval, Provoke, and reprisal are must haves right? If we can't don't reply to this we already disagree i think you should never comment on role skills ever again due to your lack of general understanding of how tank mechanics work and the flow of tanking. So now ill have to justify Awareness or Anticipation although i didn't list it ill explain why it has a slot.

Point 1, AOE pulls under awareness makes the healers life atleast 50% easier allowing your healer to dps which will allow more overall dps to your group your not the only in the party CONTRARY to the believe of many of you tanks here YOU ARE ON A TEAM.


Point 2, Out side of aoe clears awareness has more consistency of usage for maintaining healthy hp and damage with it being situtational, your only using shirk for tank swaps and/or if your tank is bad and nothing else, if your MTing awareness is pretty much good all thoughtout the fight because you could be crit at anytime now awareness is a net gain as long as your MTing i've tanking many raid and dungeons an i can say its very rare to not see myself get crit by a boss atleast 2 times in 25seconds you avoid 1 crit awareness has now become usefull.

On Anticipation, Its really only good for aoe pulls i dont find it good for bosses but if the rng gods are with you this can mitigate almost as much damage as shadow skin keep that in mind.

Now the fact i had to explain this to you makes me believe that many of you tanks are so self absorbed you can't see the benefits of taking less damage over a longer period of time versus doing more damage in a shorter period of time which is generally circumstantial based on the fight and the skill of the MT.

1.) Awareness is good, but situational. It isn't really useful vs Bahamut or Alexander since those fights have predictable damage and you had enough HP to survive a low mitigation buster + a crit auto with plenty of health to spare (especially vs Alex since everyone was wearing VIT). It's useful in fights that have 100% crit (shiva, T11) and fights that have high crit bits (A8S). In those cases I'd give up Conva for Awareness as I find Shirk + X will give higher returns than Awareness + Conva.

2.) I haven't actually tried using Ultimatum, but to my knowledge it works like Provoke aka +1 aggro over everything. Does it have some crazy huge range that would let you hit every add when they spawn in Shiva? Because that's the only argument I can see for that.

I disagree a crit punishing heat from alexander savage even in a vit meta was devastating i had 35k hp with food etc and if i took a crit punishing heat from alexander it always put me close enough on edge to push that living dead button.

Ultimatum is 5yards not wide but if everyone runs some what close to you, you could use it and immediately have aggro of the group. Let me add as a DRK player its the same raidus as unleash so i'm used to using short ranged radial aoes.

[Hruodig]

Now i guess ill have to explain why because the critical thinking portion of you head doesn't seem to be intact so we can prolly agree that Rampart, Conval, Provoke, and reprisal are must haves right? If we can't don't reply to this we already disagree i think you should never comment on role skills ever again due to your lack of general understanding of how tank mechanics work and the flow of tanking. So now ill have to justify Awareness or Anticipation although i didn't list it ill explain why it has a slot.

Point 1, AOE pulls under awareness makes the healers life atleast 50% easier allowing your healer to dps which will allow more overall dps to your group your not the only in the party CONTRARY to the believe of many of your tanks here YOU ARE ON A TEAM.


Point 2, Out side of aoe clears awareness has more consistency of usage for maintaining healthy hp and damage with it being situtational, your only using shirk for tank swaps and/or if your tank is bad and nothing else, if your MTing awarness is pretty much good all thoughtout the fight because you could be crit at anytime now awareness is a net gain as long as your MTing i've tanking many raid and dungeons an i can say its very rare to not see myself get crit by a boss atleast 2 times in 25seconds you avoid 1 crit awareness has now become usefull.

On Anticipation, Its really only good for aoe pulls i dont find it good for bosses but if the rng gods are with you this can mitigate almost as much damage as shadow skin keep that in mind.

Now the fact i had to explain this to you makes me believe that many of you tanks are so self absorbed you can't see the benefits of taking less damage over a longer period of time versus doing more damage in a shorter period of time which is generally circumstantial based on the fight and the skill of the MT.

So forfeit one of the best raid dps-increasing abilities tanks have been given for a 2 minute long cd that lasts for 25 seconds? Something that only MIGHT be beneficial? Or a minute long cd which, again, MIGHT be beneficial? I really don't think you've done any high-end tanking if you think this is a good idea. Take the guaranteed benefit over a potential one, every single time. And in case you're wondering, yes: dps is king. Kill the encounter faster, healers have to heal less. Crazy how that works.

[Mnemosynia]

snip

And shirk is beneficial when? For fight u have tank swaps in and what? You change one gcd with no use of shirk maybe two if you don't know what your doing and that outweighs the potential damage reduction you get which will allow for healers to heal you less and do more and allow you to stay out of tank stance and make you blow less defensive cds?

You just don't understand how the flow of combat works, Do you realize how rare it is to not be crit for 25seconds? If you don't you've never paid attention to the numbers your taking ever you've only cared about the numbers you've dealt and if thats the case you should put down the class and dps. I'm convinced we are ideologically different you want more dps i want more versatility and freedom to stance dance without having to blow other cd's. I've done tank swaping with out shirk and i will continue to do it.

You can pick up that role skill that we have all been doing fine with out including you ill take awareness and do my aoe pulls mostly out of tank stance while you run around trying to find some scrub tank to shirk for.

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

You need to think of Shirk as a DPS cooldown.

Almost all enmity generating abilities in single target in this game are a DPS loss. Tank stances, aggro combos, etc. Shirk costs nothing and generates more aggro all at once than all of them.

If you add up all the losses of all the power slashes, halones, and (arguably) butcher's blocks, plus any tank stance uptime, that you would have needed to generate the kind of insane lead that Shirk can provide, you realize that Shirk = all of that potency.

Its crazy not to take it into any content in which you and your co-tank care about your damage.

Moreover, the ability is just fun. It makes aggro management a mechanic that costs nothing other than a little extra raid awareness on your/your co-tank's part, and ultimately fosters better teamwork.

[Quor]

snip

Expanding on this, Shirk also becomes a way of forcing a tank change during, say, Susano EX or Omega 4. As long as the OT isn't too far behind, then one Shirk is enough to transfer hate if, for some reason, the OT isn't able to provoke, or maybe isn't paying as much attention as they should be.

[FPZ]

So forfeit one of the best raid dps-increasing abilities tanks have been given for a 2 minute long cd that lasts for 25 seconds? Something that only MIGHT be beneficial? Or a minute long cd which, again, MIGHT be beneficial? I really don't think you've done any high-end tanking if you think this is a good idea. Take the guaranteed benefit over a potential one, every single time. And in case you're wondering, yes: dps is king. Kill the encounter faster, healers have to heal less. Crazy how that works.

He's trolling or genuinely believes the nonsense he is spewing, the guy isn't even level 70 so he's just got nothing to do but troll, best to put it on ignore, you won't get any sense out of replying to it. He's jealous and bitter, can't adapt to the meta of tank damage and has never tanked anything high level in his life without echo or nerfs, hence the spite against those who want to push themselves. Guy literally doesn't exist in any raid logs and is still level 60, so this only confirms it.

The FFXIV forums get a bad rep a lot of the time, this guy is a prime example of terrible advice & a terrible attitude, a great example of what NOT to be when trying to progress your skill in a game, posting more on the forums then actually getting good in game. o/

[Mnemosynia]

He's trolling or genuinely believes the nonsense he is spewing, the guy isn't even level 70 so he's just got nothing to do but troll, best to put it on ignore, you won't get any sense out of replying to it.

The FFXIV forums get a bad rep a lot of the time, this guy is a prime example of terrible advice & a terrible attitude, a great example of what NOT to be when trying to progress your skill in a game.

The ff forums gets a bad rep because its filled with people who are wasting a skill slot on something that we were doing with one skill for three years and we have scrubs claiming to be good saying its mandatory because its impossible to swap or do good dps with out after the years of doing tank swaps and doing good dps with out said skill. I'm out of this thread you guys are idiots.

[Hruodig]

He's trolling or genuinely believes the nonsense he is spewing, the guy isn't even level 70 so he's just got nothing to do but troll, best to put it on ignore, you won't get any sense out of replying to it. He's jealous and bitter, can't adapt to the meta of tank damage and has never tanked anything high level in his life without echo or nerfs, hence the spite against those who want to push themselves. Guy literally doesn't exist in any raid logs and is still level 60, so this only confirms it.

The FFXIV forums get a bad rep a lot of the time, this guy is a prime example of terrible advice & a terrible attitude, a great example of what NOT to be when trying to progress your skill in a game, posting more on the forums then actually getting good in game. o/

Understood. I'm not necessarily replying to him to try to change his mind, I'm more talking to anyone who's lurking who's wondering if shirk is worth taking in 8 man content or not.

If you're lurking: take shirk in 8 man content.