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  1. #1
    Player
    Elindiir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Rhel Synhas
    World
    Typhon
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 54

    The state of DPS and why I both love and hate RDM

    I am a healer main, I love being one, and it gives me a certain perspective on being able to see how helpful DPSs are. In my opinion, any DPS is 'good enough' in damages and I will not bash them in that regard (even though WHM can at times out AOE certain jobs). However, it feels like RDM out-performs in every manner, even being able to resurrect allies, something that made a certain supportive job appealing. The thing is, Red Mage simply is able to replace any caster DPS due to the fact that it has it all: Burst damage, long combos for sustainable damage, multiple mobility abilities, and even the ability to resurrect. Objectively, it is a good job and makes dungeons easier. Subjectively, it is a blight for the game because it makes other DPS jobs unable to compare.
    (21)

  2. #2
    Player
    Galvuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    637
    Character
    Galveira Vorfeed
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    These aren't the main reasons why RDM is better than the other casters, though.
    RDM is easier to execute, less punishing (no timers or anything) and synergizes with physical comps due to embolden.
    Verraise and Vercure are cherries on top of the cake. Even without these, given their relatively high and consistent damage, lack of punishment by mechanic/transitions and attractive support for physical jobs, RDM would probably still beat them out.
    Verraise is just the final punch to the gut (especially for poor SMN, who had a monopoly on that before, as far as dps jobs go).
    (27)

  3. #3
    Player
    Exterium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    32
    Character
    Kira Rashik
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by Galvuu View Post
    These aren't the main reasons why RDM is better than the other casters, though.
    RDM is easier to execute, less punishing (no timers or anything) and synergizes with physical comps due to embolden.
    Verraise and Vercure are cherries on top of the cake. Even without these, given their relatively high and consistent damage, lack of punishment by mechanic/transitions and attractive support for physical jobs, RDM would probably still beat them out.
    Verraise is just the final punch to the gut (especially for poor SMN, who had a monopoly on that before, as far as dps jobs go).
    Add to the mix the fact that verraise can be basically always casted instantly.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    PrismaticDaybreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    306
    Character
    Prism Daybreak
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    They said they want to keep adding jobs to the game, someone was going to step on SMN's precious resurrection eventually, that's a non issue point since it was bound to happen.
    (11)

  5. #5
    Player
    Galvuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    637
    Character
    Galveira Vorfeed
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak View Post
    They said they want to keep adding jobs to the game, someone was going to step on SMN's precious resurrection eventually, that's a non issue point since it was bound to happen.
    I don't have a problem with Verraise or RDM as a whole. I think it's a neat job, and I like backflipping.
    That said, there is a problem when you start bringing new jobs which not only possess some of the main attractive of other jobs, but all around perform better in the rest and/or bring other things.

    As much as I think BLM is a broken mess/in trouble, in the comparison with RDM, it's not as bad as SMN.
    Because BLM is a cannon. We do damage. Buff our numbers and we're good to go.

    This is not true for SMN. SMN had slightly less damage than BLM in 3.X, but it had the added utility of raise and Supervirus and mobility. With the reworks, they now have some buffs for casters (which probably are pointless because caster comps don't work in this game because SE is dumb about that) and for a single party member.
    Now the head to head comparison is troubling between RDM vs SMN. RDM has more mobility than SMN had in 3.X (and much more than it has now), it has the same utility (raise) and a better dps buff (Embolden).
    RDM single-handed strips SMN of its core attractive offers while also providing better dps, being easier/more consistent and stacking with the most powerful comp to boot.
    I think there is a bit of a problem with that x)

    Edit: something something aoe kings in 3.X but that's irrelevant because nobody brought a SMN for the 10 second add phase, they brought it for the utility of Supervirus and Raise in Alex Savage, especially during progression.
    (19)
    Last edited by Galvuu; 07-12-2017 at 05:57 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    PrismaticDaybreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    306
    Character
    Prism Daybreak
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Galvuu View Post
    I don't have a problem with Verraise or RDM as a whole. I think it's a neat job, and I like backflipping.
    That said, there is a problem when you start bringing new jobs which not only possess some of the main attractive of other jobs, but all around perform better in the rest and/or bring other things.

    As much as I think BLM is a broken mess/in trouble, in the comparison with RDM, it's not as bad as SMN.
    Because BLM is a cannon. We do damage. Buff our numbers and we're good to go.

    This is not true for SMN. SMN had slightly less damage than BLM in 3.X, but it had the added utility of raise and Supervirus and mobility. With the reworks, they now have some buffs for casters (which probably are pointless because caster comps don't work in this game because SE is dumb about that) and for a single party member.
    Now the head to head comparison is troubling between RDM vs SMN. RDM has more mobility than SMN had in 3.X (and much more than it has now), it has the same utility (raise) and a better dps buff (Embolden).
    RDM single-handed strips SMN of its core attractive offers while also providing better dps, being easier/more consistent and stacking with the most powerful comp to boot.
    I think there is a bit of a problem with that x)

    Edit: something something aoe kings in 3.X but that's irrelevant because nobody brought a SMN for the 10 second add phase, they brought it for the utility of Supervirus and Raise in Alex Savage, especially during progression.
    If the main attraction of SMN was resurrection there's a pretty big issue there. I'm not saying SMN doesn't have issues since I used to main it and can't bear to level it at this point (Also RDM is a caster/spellblade archetype and that's always been my perennial favorite next to summoning things to do the killing for me) since how AF/AT works is inane and poorly thought out, removing a chunk of DPS since it was common to AF stack and use them within DWT for extra damage. I don't understand why they decided to limit Aetherpact to one person rather than keeping it extended to the whole party like they did just before live. I guess a 5% increase in all areas is absolutely insane compared with whatever anyone else can do.

    I know all the damage nerfs they received were to compensate for Bahamut, but the fact that Bahamut takes 2 minutes to get out makes that moot. The Bane nerf was dramatic overkill, Deathflare doesn't deserve fall off especially when for example, ninjas get the exact same ability with no fall off and what I think is a shorter recast, I don't know the interval between auto attacks so I can't calculate it. Ruin 3 at max deserved a 30 potency nerf and even then only to make Ruin 4 seem interesting, although Ruin 4 isn't particularly great because it's literally what we just had but gated behind a clunky pet.

    Bottom line: I love RDM and I don't want to see it nerfed because like I've said many times, it's not going to help the other two casters in any way and also I personally think it's stupid to nerf a class because another class is more complex/punishing, if anything that means the maximum achievable DPS of the other two casters needs to be brought drastically.
    (9)
    Last edited by PrismaticDaybreak; 07-12-2017 at 06:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Fatshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    215
    Character
    Magnus Valerius
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    I come back after 2 years and many jobs got butchered, but hey at least Red Mage/Samurai are a thing. The next most requested jobs now I think are Blue Mage/Geomancer but they should add more Tanks/Healers.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhex View Post
    Why would you pay for a game, to pay an RMT, to pay other players to play the game for you?

  8. #8
    Player
    Age_of_Oblivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    65
    Character
    Aetherius Lune
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 72
    I'm pretty sure that RDM will need to be nerfed. For it's difficulty level, it just completely outclasses every other DPS in the game, with the possible exception of SAM.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Nezia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    187
    Character
    Fester Blight
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Galvuu View Post
    These aren't the main reasons why RDM is better than the other casters, though.
    RDM is easier to execute, less punishing (no timers or anything) and synergizes with physical comps due to embolden.
    Verraise and Vercure are cherries on top of the cake. Even without these, given their relatively high and consistent damage, lack of punishment by mechanic/transitions and attractive support for physical jobs, RDM would probably still beat them out.
    Verraise is just the final punch to the gut (especially for poor SMN, who had a monopoly on that before, as far as dps jobs go).
    There is also the fact that RDM is not heavily punished by mechanics that are completely out of one's control, like boss transition phase or unavoidable stuns.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Every time I think I should go Red mage, my tank/healer friends round up pack of 12 mobs and I get to remember why Black mage will always be the king of my heart.
    (4)

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