Stop rewarding tanks/healers! We all put in the same effort.

[Katsuragi_]

-snip-

For the 1st paragraph:
This seems to discourage the people running tank for convenience if anything. Not to disagree that it would probably make up for a better experience, speaking of the dungeon run itself.

For the 2nd paragraph:
I don't think any that would make a big difference. I don't think the mechanics of the classes are what makes people want to be tanks or healers. Granted, might discourage some people who are only doing it for convenience. Whatever the case, DPSs getting to snooze in queues is expected. Unless I'm missing something because in my datacenter it's not that horrible. Nothing I haven't seen before.
As for the dungeons part, that's way too many resources being spent on redesigning old content.

For the 3rd paragraph:
lul you got some spicy memes going on there, my dude.

[YitharV2]

I don't think any that would make a big difference. I don't think the mechanics of the classes are what makes people want to be tanks or healers. Granted, might discourage some people who are only doing it for convenience. Whatever the case, DPSs getting to snooze in queues is expected. Unless I'm missing something because in my datacenter it's not that horrible. Nothing I haven't seen before. As for the dungeons part, that's way too many resources being spent on redesigning old content.

I agree that players have their own reasons for wanting to be tanks or healers. However, I disagree about it not making a big difference. I think something that goes through a tank or healer's mind when they queue is "am I going to finish this dungeon in a reasonable amount of time" or "is this not going to be a total nightmare". See comment as to some of the changes DRKs are upset about. I mean, I understand SE wants players to work together in conjunction as a team with everyone pulling their own weight, but that just doesn't mesh well with DF. And as far as I'm concerned, tanks do not have a high ability to carry in this game. That's why my friend plays healer instead.

My FC master once acknowledged redesigning dungeons to accommodate more DPS would take a ton of resources, but he thinks it would be a good solution to the problem.

[ADVSS]

I dont see what the big deal is, want the rewards? roll a tank or healer. Dont? Then stop complaining


tanks do not have a high ability to carry in this game. That's why my friend plays healer instead.

My FC master once acknowledged redesigning dungeons to accommodate more DPS would take a ton of resources, but he thinks it would be a good solution to the problem.[/QUOTE]





if only I streamed my last expert run, where me and a 2 friends, pld and rdm also, ended up having our healer skip out on our res in the middle of the final voss of temple of the fist. We beat it it without them, (tank friend was PLD) when they decided to ignore their res and respawn. The entire time before, they wanted to cast gravity instead of heal our tank, on every pull he made, to where he was telling us to stop keeoung him alive. Im glad for hyvriding job roles, i hope we see a tank that can res in the future too, Healers hace had too much power when it comes to instances and fights, and i hope that some of that power gets transferred. Like ive always said, if the healers are good and you lose both tanks, they can heal through it, and raise the tanks, or other dps can. If all dps are dead and its not a dps check going on atm, its savable. But if you dont have a smn or rdm and both healers are dead? its a wipe.

[Tint]

I think the only solution to this is for everyone to become a tank. That way SE will have no choice, but to add a DPS reward to Duty Finder. It's brilliant! C'mon everybody, follow me!!!

this system is already in place, SE don't have to add a rward for the DPS if this happens, since it will automatically apply the bonus to the role in need - wich in this case would be DPS classes.

the only reward tanks get are the mounts. healers get no reward at all, besides the unicorn for lvl 30 Conjurers, wich was added at the launch of 2.0, since there was only 1 healer class pre-30. but it's so easy to get, that i don't think it really counts... the whole role in need bonus is not a tank or healer reward, it's a reward for the actual role in need to fill the duty finder queues. since nobody wants to play tank, tank is almost all the time the role in need. if people start playing tanks it will change to other roles automatically.

[JMadFour]

Please reward the tanks and healers all you want.

give them even more rewards if you want.

the more rewards they get, the more tanks/healers get played, the lower my queue times when I am playing the class I actually enjoy.

[Nixxe]

Whether or not something is obnoxious is purely subjective. Personally, I find it obnoxious when my rotation consists of cure-spamming or AoE spells only, but that's speed-pulls for you. I'd much rather take a few minutes longer and have breathing room to actually use my full toolset.

If you have anything relatively objective to add to the discussion, feel free. Otherwise, why bother wasting everyone's time with drivel?

The prevalence of speed running should strongly suggest that I am not alone in my opinion that faster is better and that deliberately gating instances to slow completion times would be an unwelcome change. You can pretend it's not a common view or that something being subjective means no inference can be drawn, but that's obviously specious and not worth serious consideration. "Drivel," one might call it.

Not really sure what you're talking about needing "breathing room" to "use [your] full toolset [sic]." As healing requirements go down, you generally need fewer spells and increasingly use only your couple of DPS abilities, at least if you're being useful.

[Tint]

Please reward the tanks and healers all you want.

give them even more rewards if you want.

the more rewards they get, the more tanks/healers get played, the lower my queue times when I am playing the class I actually enjoy.

actually as a tank i never cared fo the rewards. i played tank because i WANTED to play tank. now i don't play tank anymore, since it's no fun anymore since 4.0. i don't care for the new mount and clusters. i play the role i have fun with. i would rather quit FFXIV and play another game before i play a class just for the "rewards".

[Rokke]

.

A speed run (or a lack of one) depends 100% on the folks running, as does healer dps. Sometimes the tank likes big pulls, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes the healer can handle big pulls, sometimes they can't. How fast my run will be is a gamble of queueing without a full party. If SE forced small pulls on me I would simply not queue until I could run with a premade.

As for an apology on 2 dps- I regularly play BRD now that 4.0 made it fun again. Queue times on Aether for the two lv70 dungeons take all of 20-25 min, about the same as it was before for EX roulette. The only things with long waits are old leveling dungeons, which again were a similar issue pre 4.0. Out of the gate queues sucked, yeah, but they’re already balancing themselves back lol

Not really sure what you're talking about needing "breathing room" to "use [your] full toolset [sic]." As healing requirements go down, you generally need fewer spells and increasingly use only your couple of DPS abilities, at least if you're being useful.

I don't understand the implication that speed pulls keep someone from using their full toolkit. I'm using heals, regens, aoes, off gcds in mine. Isn't that our whole kit? xD

[Katsuragi_]

-snip-

Be that as it may, it's been my understanding that the issues lie with the classes themselves and it surely should be addressed if that is the case (perhaps a loss of identity that spilled over their kit would be a way to put it), but not with the tanking role in itself.
I don't think I've heard a single Paladin complain yet. But sure I'm not advocating that everyone should just go Paladin. They have the other two for a reason.

[Syfurion]

I don't think I've heard a single Paladin complain yet. But sure I'm not advocating that everyone should just go Paladin. They have the other two for a reason.

They got nothing to complain about, they have everything you could want, mechanically, in a tank. Sustain, utility, damage, and defensives out the ass. There is no reason to not be a paladin outside of those of us too stubborn to do it.
Despite the changes to WAR, I still favour it as my tank of choice, because I like it thematically. I don't understand why the damage buff was moved to Storm's Eye off of Maim, I don't understand why our 'dps combo', i.e. Storm's Path has the lowest total potency of all 3, and I don't understand why we lost the ability to generate gauge off of things like Raw Intuition. I don't particularly like losing half my gauge when I stance change, but I can live with it, we can still do the stance swap > fell cleave > infuriate > fell cleave as before, and I quite enjoy the ability to effectively stockpile 3 charges of our 50 gauge dumps (Cyclone > Infuriate > Cyclone > Cyclone, as an example). I feel like Inner Release/Unchained should drop the gauge cost, or even generate gauge, with their longer cooldown, and while I quite enjoy Onslaught, as having a distance closer is what initially drew me to DRK in HW before I fell for WAR, it having a gauge cost also feels pretty bad. I like Upheaval, it feels nice to have a button that genuinely hits harder in Defiance than Deliverance, I like it's interaction with our % hp increases, and I feel it's fully worth it's gauge cost.
So yeah, I have gripes, WAR and DRK all have gripes as far as I can tell. PLD? PLD get no room to complain right now, in my (biased) opinion.