I miss the old WAR decision making.

[Pnyapa]

the worst defensive cooldowns (holmgang pales in comparison to other emegrencies)

You're joking right?

[aleph_null]

If you think holmgang is an emergency cd then you're using it wrong lol. In long fights like a12s you can use holmgang 3-4 times to cheese tank busters, which allows you and the other tank to stack more mitigation for the other tank busters, allowing for less tank stance uptime.

[YitharV2]

I am very familiar with the situation we are in atm. I was speaking to the wanting decision making back portion of ops post not the state of warrior. But on that Note war sustain is fkn great on war, and your tripping war has by far the best defensive toolkit of all the tanks. and yes we do less damage on the top but 99.9% of the people on there forums are not at the top its irrelevant to them which can do more because they wouldnt have the skill to out dps a good drk or pld even if fell cleave way 800 potency. so instead of complaining about the max potential of the classes most people need to tune up their damage and work on rotations. Even when se does fix war most people are still gonna do lower damage because they dont know how to play the class optimally.

Yes the DPS ceiling is irrelevant to me. What I'm more concerned about is the feel of the job. And the feel is very clunky right now. All my complaints are about the feel of the job. For example, WAR in the past combined offensive tools with defensive tools that led to impactful decision making.

It's also true if I actually put the time into it I could probably do a ton more DPS, but I don't care enough to do so. I'm not going to play a job I don't find fun anymore. I was only discussing the max potential because someone else stated that WAR has highest DPS potential (which I'm still unconvinced of by looking at the top PLD and WAR DPS on Susano; assuming it is true that WAR has highest potential, it means it's much harder to execute in practice).

Oh and holmgand is the best ultimate of the three by a long shot. It a 3 min CD which I use every other tank buster and I get to avoid kickbacks. Shit is great. The other tanks are way too damn long and living is terrible. You can't even use it without healer aid. Hallowed is 7 min CD -_- so one maybe two activations if you use it early in a long fight which is terrible. Nice for cheesing some mechs though so not as bad as loving imo.

You're definitely correct that Holmgang has the shortest CD and doesn't need healer help like LD. I know it could be used to cheese Punishing Heat in A12S. But Hallowed Ground (while having a really long CD), has the advantage of literally ignoring mechanics. For example, it ignores slashing debuff on Susano, so I think Hallowed Ground can be better in certain cases, depending on the fight.

[Marxam]

I just find it sad that SE says tank and healer damage calculation won't be considered in battles but they go ahead and give war 3 offensive skills and 1 trait that promote increased dps. Fell Cleaving 6 times? Reduced recast for infuriate for every 5 seconds upon execution of certain skills? It's patches like these that make me feel like the team really doesn't know what they are doing or are simply expecting us to beta test jobs for them then they fix it in they later patches.

I am cautiously optimistic for 4.05 as that will be the turning point for me on whether I drop tanking this expansion for a DPS. I just pains me because I really love the job, lore and aesthetic of WAR but it failed in the one most important thing to me. Fun. Im not really a sword and board guy and can't relly comment on drk yet since i'm still lvling it. It's just currently far too cumbersome to play WAR and when I play as SAM I keep thinking "why isn't WAR more like this?" They are both the same in a nut shell. Both provide nothing to party except a slashing debuff except one job was clearly designed to better than the other and wasn't compromised in keeping a "balance" among its role.

Either give WAR some good utilities to help the party with or simply increase its dps to the point where it is a "feasible" to bring it over another tank. I also get the feeling that Shake it Off will not be utilized in end game raids given the current trend so far of ex primals but we will see.

[Soraki-Muppe]

We have no utility, the worst defensive cooldowns (holmgang pales in comparison to other emegrencies), and no more damage.

WAR have some great defensive utility even outside tank stance and in said stance we got IB that while it requires timing is a wonderful skill to use against spike damage. Holmgang is also really nice, the only thing it requires is timing but when you got that down you and your group can take the easy way around some nasty tank busters.

To the OP Here are my opinions, most stated other places but one have changed a little.
Berserk as it is right now is fine, It times well with our fell cleave windows.
Shake it off should just be replaced with something else. I do believe my dislike for this skill has made its way around these forums.
Onslaught should not cost beast gauge but it should not generate any either, leave the potency and recast in place while removing the cost and this skill would be good to go. Oh and change the animation so it does not look like a MNK shoulder tackle, that is just plain cheap SE.
Remove the damn cost for changing stance. I get what SE aimed for here, you tank you stay in tank stance, but all it did was make us less willing to change stance at all... your in dps stance then you really want to just stay in that stance and not even touch tank stance, which works against what SE was aiming for.
Inner release and unchained should not share a recast timer. Keep the recast time as is but make it so these two do now share a recast, only thing this does is make us unwilling to use unchained, which is not a bad skill but now one most will not use.
Buff the potency of path by 10 or 20.

Of my concerns I would say the list of priority is.
1; Remove cost of changing stance.
2: Give inner release and unchained separate recast timers.
3: Remove the cost of onslaught.
4: Replace Shake if off with something useful, this is lower on the list since I know this will take time so this is the thing least likely to happen for 4.05.
5: Increase the potency of path by 10 or 20. Would be nice but I do not see this happening.

[Dizzy_Derp]

snip.

Yeah warrior does feel like shit atm moment, Theres no way around that.nut we still sorta do Im that thrill is used in tandam with upheaval but besides that we really arent forced to utilize our defensive abilities anymore for damage which I personally like. You still do need to do a lot of planning and constantly be watching your gauge to determine where you are going to end up and how best to use the gauge. As far as the potential goes I think that person didnt know what they were talking about. War latencies are lower than the other two's across the board and I feel like Im coming really close to the max possible damage of the class which is still hello shirt of pld so unless this person knows something I dont, which i highly doubt, it does not have the highest potential. And yeah they can do with hallowed what we should be able to do with shake it off, ignore mechs.

[Reynhart]

where is the differential from Fight or Flight?

Fight or Flight doesn't boost your healing skill.

[mxllxr]

Fight or Flight doesn't boost your healing skill.

I'm not talking about it's tangible benefits. The old berserk boosted our healing as well, what's your point? If you're happy with the following skills as is, then more power to you. Just don't be disingenuous with your comment as if there's something fascinating going on in these tooltips.

Raging Strikes: "Increases damage dealt by 10%."

Fight or Flight: "Increases physical damage dealt by 25%."

Berserk: "Increases attack power by 30%.

As an example to the kind of implementation SE is capable of:

The Wanderer's Minuet: "Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increases critical hit rate of all party members within a radius of 20 yalms by 2%
Duration: 30s
Effect is lost if party members move out of hearing distance.
Additional Effect: Allows execution of Pitch Perfect if critical damage over time is dealt by Caustic Bite or Stormbite.
Can be stacked up to 3 times."

Blood of the Dragon: "Increases potency of Jump and Spineshatter Dive by 30%.
Duration: 15s
Additional Effect: Grants Sharper Fang and Claw upon successfully executing Full Thrust, or Enhanced Wheeling Thrust upon successfully executing Chaos Thrust.
Duration: 10s
Effects end upon reuse or upon using a weaponskill other than Fang and Claw or Wheeling Thrust."

which then evolves into another ability Life of the Dragon that brings so much fantasy to the class. DRG is one of the most iconic jobs in this franchise which keeps people coming back to it regardless of damage numbers. Don't act like you're happy with those 1 liners.

[Reynhart]

The old berserk boosted our healing as well, what's your point?

You think that the new berserk is just like FoF, it's not.
And frankly, having berserk pacify you when you have the skill whose sole utility will be to remove pacify, there's no "consequence".

[mxllxr]

You think that the new berserk is just like FoF, it's not.
And frankly, having berserk pacify you when you have the skill whose sole utility will be to remove pacify, there's no "consequence".

Explain to me how it's so wildly different that you're willing to play ignorant for the sake of argument.