Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[Reynhart]

Read it again; this is not a reply to the post that I wrote or any of the points that I made.

I took the full discussion :

Of course, no super tight HP checks to the point that lacking 100 HP will get you killed, but, at least, ensuring that have the full benefit of your ilvl on your Vitality.

In order to be clearable, raids can't require HP checks that you can only meet by having the loot that drops from the raid.

Never said that. But a content that requires ilvl300 should require ilvl300 worth of vitatily.

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias.

No, it's not...i300 is the minimum ilvl required, and having no VIT accessories is like wearing nothing when it comes to the amount of main stat you have. You shouldn't even be able enter the content with such a low main stat.

How did I not reply to one of your points ?

[Derio]

If you reduce vit for tanks then all jobs needs but reduced

[shao32]

It's not just the tank stances for me. My point about the tank stances was that it only has a damage penalty because SE thinks it should have one.

I can watch Netflix while tanking most bosses. That is my major problem with tanking. It's not engaging. Especially with Warrior now. Like if you give up all damage on Warrior, you can rotate your mitigation cooldowns with Inner Beast and never run out of CDs. If I watched Netflix while tanking in TERA, I would get wrecked as a tank.

yeah thats why bosses need to be less scriped and have random tank busters or even more types of tankbuster making tanks swaps not being only bcs we get X debuff but more bcs we run out of cds and need swap to refresh, but i dont think something like this will be added bcs SE will think the other tank dont never know when you run out of CD or something like that

[HoodRat]

tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

Judging by how easy it is to tank everything in stormblood so far without tank stance, I'm going to assume that "they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers" is not why people are upset.

[aleph_null]

No, it's not...i300 is the minimum ilvl required, and having no VIT accessories is like wearing nothing when it comes to the amount of main stat you have. You shouldn't even be able enter the content with such a low main stat.

Before the ilvl requirement lift on pre-made parties, even the best players in the game couldn't enter the content without a sufficient amount of main stat.

I'm quite sure before raid finder was a thing there was no ilv requirement on savage raids when you queue via the npc in hinterland? The ilv requirement removal for premade parties were added since we were no longer able to queue via the npc anymore after they introduced raid finder.

The hp difference between full i300 fending gear and full i320 fending gear is around 5k (slightly over 10% iirc), if you design the damage of the encounters on tanks to be high enough that i300 tanks need everything they have (all defensive cds, tank stance and invulnerability cds) to survive, regardless of how good they are, do you really think average tanks/healers can survive that with barely 10% more hp? If you really think so then you're delusional. Look at elysium's first a8s clear at around i220, and look at the groups of casual raiders stuck in a6s/a7s/a8s despite having near full i240 gear and anima weapon. I don't think you understand the skill gap between those top players and average players.

[Reynhart]

The hp difference between full i300 fending gear and full i320 fending gear is around 5k

5k is 1/8th of your max HP at i300, it's huge. And the difference between a full i300 fending gear and i270 slaying gear is around 10K, 1/4th of your max possible HP.

I'm pretty sure the same difference in DPS output would not let you kill the corresponding dummy.

I don't think you understand the skill gap between those top players and average players.

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

[Ariyn]

5k is 1/8th of your max HP at i300, it's huge. And the difference between a full i300 fending gear and i270 slaying gear is around 10K, 1/4th of your max possible HP.

I'm pretty sure the same difference in DPS output would not let you kill the corresponding dummy.

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

The difference is ... you can lose 10k health and still have enough to survive even the current "tank busters" without mitigation. Tanks simply have too much HP right now. In full 320 Fending our PLD has 49k health. If he dropped those for 270 STR acc and lost 10k health, it still wouldn't be an issue because nothing hits that hard so the health isn't needed.

[Gravton]

Or they could, idk, make our abilities scale in power off our main stat. You know....like every other class in the game! Tank design is not complicated. I don't know why after 4 years the Devs still can't figure out the tank role. Have our def stuff scale off vit, have our att stuff scale off str. Stop giving tanks soooo many att skills. I have more attack skills in my toolkit than def ones. If tanks aren't dps then they have a funny way of showing it. Plus the easy fix would be to revert back to the old system and nerf weapon damage on all the tank weapons to keep them from equipping lower lvl weapons.

[aleph_null]

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

Which is why I think having tank stance as the extra safety buffer for less skilled tank is fine, so better skilled tanks can have less tank stance uptime while less skilled tanks can play safe with near 100% tank stance uptime to make up for possible errors. If you make 100% tank stance uptime necessary to survive what are you going to give to the less skilled tanks to compensate for their lack of skills?

[Reynhart]

If you make 100% tank stance uptime necessary to survive what are you going to give to the less skilled tanks to compensate for their lack of skills?

Nothing. But I'd give more skilled tanks something to improve on, like more complex DPS rotation, or active but complex mitigation which mastery would greatly reduce the healing required. For me, being in tank stance is your basic state, like MNK in Fist Of Fire, or NIN and its poison (Before 4.0). The only reason a tank stance is required is because you need decent DPS when you solo. If the game didn't have solo instances, I'm pretty sure native damage would be 20% lower and native mitigation, 20% higher.

Tanks simply have too much HP right now.

Mobs should hit harder. If a tank has around 50k max HP, then tankbusters should do around 80-90k and tank stance should reduce damage by 50%.