Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[Reynhart]

In order to be clearable, raids can't require HP checks that you can only meet by having the loot that drops from the raid.

Never said that. But a content that requires ilvl300 should require ilvl300 worth of vitatily. Going into Susano EX with "only" 36kHP should get you killed.

Of course my saying something wouldn't affect the game; how on Earth could it? I'm pointing out a design flaw.

What ? You quoted me when I said that VIT is tank's main stat. How is that a design flaw ?!

[Kaonis]

If they want to make tanks into more of a tank and less of a DPS, then they need to start by making things hit a bit harder. People weren't pulling 2-4 groups of mobs in dungeons and stance dancing in raids just to go quicker, they did it because its completely possible and easy to do it. I still will pull 2-4 groups if I know the pulls well and I know the healer/DPS are up to it, because a singular pull does so little damage I can forget cool downs and be just fine, just tax/anger the healer a bit more.

They also need more tank secondary stats. I tanked in SWTOR and they had 3 tank secondaries. One that was essentially parry, one that would affect how much damage you blocked through 'parry', and one that was for evasion. Meanwhile, we have tenacity, and the numbers haven't looked great from it yet. But even if it was, then it would mean we stack it, then fill in with DPS secondaries.

There's just no incentives to be tanky tanks in this game.

[shao32]

You have to be a real lazy or just plain bad player if you can't cleric stance dance as a healer in 3.X.
In JP servers the majority of the healers here does cleric stance dance all the time in ID and savage content and nobody ever says i'm a healer i heal only over here.

i dont say the contrary, but cleric stance was clunky and the worst skill i never face, when i was playing AST just for change a bit in 24 man and roulettes i always find this skill so akward in the way i waste instan cure thanks of how works.

but my main point is the primary stat is define by role not for this do damage.

[Crater]

But a content that requires ilvl300 should require ilvl300 worth of vitatily.

They can't because only a tiny minority of the people who can clear raid tiers like Coil/Creator are able to perform as a tank with that little margin for error.

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias. In Gordias your tanking skills needed to be nearly flawless, because (in full STR) you simply did not have an HP cushion to fall back if you were sloppy or inefficient. And it was too difficult for all but a tiny fraction of the game's tanks.

It wont be any easier if you force tanks into 0-AP VIT acc's and scale the damage up. The people who couldn't do Gordias wouldnt be able to do this tier. It would kill the raid scene, and require just as much kneejerk damage control as Gordias. The only thing youd accomplish would be making it less fun/rewarding/interesting.

What about that actually sounds good?

[YitharV2]

@OP
I will admit SE does listen to feedback. However, I have been against the way SE has designed tanking from the start. See my comment here. They would need to make drastic changes to the whole system for me to actually consider tanking fun. Like giving tanks active mitigation, making bosses do constant damage, make it so you'd have to do an optimized rotation to hold aggro, etc.

[aleph_null]

They can't because only a tiny minority of the people who can clear raid tiers like Coil/Creator are able to perform as a tank with that little margin for error.

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias. In Gordias your tanking skills needed to be nearly flawless, because (in full STR) you simply did not have an HP cushion to fall back if you were sloppy or inefficient. And it was too difficult for all but a tiny fraction of the game's tanks.

Pretty much what I've been saying for probably months already. If the best tanks in the game can't get away without tank stance the raid would kill off more than half of our raiders. Those tanks in the top speedkill groups are really good at their mitigation compared to average raiders, so if they still need tank stance to survive the average tanks wouldn't be able to stay alive. Raising the damage tanks receive to make tank stance more needed would just kill off the raiding scene just like how gordias required near optimal execution of dps rotations, except this time people would struggle with the mitigation checks instead of dps checks. I don't know how it is in NA/EU but in JP I'd say most of the tanks (and healers) in raid finder aren't even good enough to tank creator savage without tank stance. Most of them can only survive with near 100% grit/shield/defiance uptime while tanking (i.e. turtle tanking).

[Reynhart]

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias.

No, it's not...i300 is the minimum ilvl required, and having no VIT accessories is like wearing nothing when it comes to the amount of main stat you have. You shouldn't even be able enter the content with such a low main stat.

Consider this, should a DPS be able to clear Susano EX with 5 i270 VIT accessories ?

Pretty much what I've been saying for probably months already. If the best tanks in the game can't get away without tank stance the raid would kill off more than half of our raiders.

Before the ilvl requirement lift on pre-made parties, even the best players in the game couldn't enter the content without a sufficient amount of main stat.

On my level 70 DRK right now, I am ilvl 303 with a right side full of i300 VIT acc and the i310 VIT ring. These accessories count for 529 points of vitality. Changing them for 5 STR acc ones is approximately the same, Vitality-wise, as basically removing my i300 head, hands, waist and feet. By doing that, my average ilvl would drop from i303 (Barely above the requirement for Susa EX) to i210 (Not enough to enter Sophia normal). Even if I meld them with VIT to keep my i300 feet equipped, it would only rise my ilvl to 233.

How is that allowed ?

[shao32]

snip

tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

i read you post and yeah tank stances need to change, the actual system is not working with the comunity and if stay like now the drama never go to stop, they need to make you dealt the same performance in both stances but with some extras for tank stance that help you as a MT and meaby some gameplays diferences but still being able to dealt the same performance, just make a one true way to tank

[Crater]

.

Read it again; this is not a reply to the post that I wrote or any of the points that I made.

[YitharV2]

tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

i read you post and yeah tank stances need to change, the actual system is not working with the comunity and if stay like now the drama never go to stop, they need to make you dealt the same performance in both stances but with some extras for tank stance that help you as a MT and meaby some gameplays diferences but still being able to dealt the same performance, just make a one true way to tank

It's not just the tank stances for me. My point about the tank stances was that it only has a damage penalty because SE thinks it should have one.

I can watch Netflix while tanking most bosses. That is my major problem with tanking. It's not engaging. Especially with Warrior now. Like if you give up all damage on Warrior, you can rotate your mitigation cooldowns with Inner Beast and never run out of CDs. If I watched Netflix while tanking in TERA, I would get wrecked as a tank.