Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[Reynhart]

The hp difference between full i300 fending gear and full i320 fending gear is around 5k

5k is 1/8th of your max HP at i300, it's huge. And the difference between a full i300 fending gear and i270 slaying gear is around 10K, 1/4th of your max possible HP.

I'm pretty sure the same difference in DPS output would not let you kill the corresponding dummy.

I don't think you understand the skill gap between those top players and average players.

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

[Ariyn]

5k is 1/8th of your max HP at i300, it's huge. And the difference between a full i300 fending gear and i270 slaying gear is around 10K, 1/4th of your max possible HP.

I'm pretty sure the same difference in DPS output would not let you kill the corresponding dummy.

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

The difference is ... you can lose 10k health and still have enough to survive even the current "tank busters" without mitigation. Tanks simply have too much HP right now. In full 320 Fending our PLD has 49k health. If he dropped those for 270 STR acc and lost 10k health, it still wouldn't be an issue because nothing hits that hard so the health isn't needed.

[aleph_null]

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

Which is why I think having tank stance as the extra safety buffer for less skilled tank is fine, so better skilled tanks can have less tank stance uptime while less skilled tanks can play safe with near 100% tank stance uptime to make up for possible errors. If you make 100% tank stance uptime necessary to survive what are you going to give to the less skilled tanks to compensate for their lack of skills?

[Reynhart]

If you make 100% tank stance uptime necessary to survive what are you going to give to the less skilled tanks to compensate for their lack of skills?

Nothing. But I'd give more skilled tanks something to improve on, like more complex DPS rotation, or active but complex mitigation which mastery would greatly reduce the healing required. For me, being in tank stance is your basic state, like MNK in Fist Of Fire, or NIN and its poison (Before 4.0). The only reason a tank stance is required is because you need decent DPS when you solo. If the game didn't have solo instances, I'm pretty sure native damage would be 20% lower and native mitigation, 20% higher.

Tanks simply have too much HP right now.

Mobs should hit harder. If a tank has around 50k max HP, then tankbusters should do around 80-90k and tank stance should reduce damage by 50%.

[Gravton]

The only reason a tank stance is required is because you need decent DPS when you solo. If the game didn't have solo instances, I'm pretty sure native damage would be 20% lower and native mitigation, 20% higher.

Mobs should hit harder. If a tank has around 50k max HP, then tankbusters should do around 80-90k and tank stance should reduce damage by 50%.

Do you off tank with grit turned on? Couldn't we just turn on tank stance for the tank buster?

[Reynhart]

Do you off tank with grit turned on? Couldn't we just turn on tank stance for the tank buster?

If normal attacks also do twice the damage, you'll keep your tank stance active to keep your HP as high as possible when the TB comes.

[ADVSS]

If normal attacks also do twice the damage, you'll keep your tank stance active to keep your HP as high as possible when the TB comes.

But they dont want to scale attack power with vit, the so called main stat because of hp inflation.

If the past meta sucks so bad, and nobody is pleased, and SE is tired of using str accessories, All they really have to do is make cooldowns like rampart scale with BIT either by making them a flat potency based on vit stat or something. Then the community would value the use of vit for things like mitigation, just like strength currently voosts how much healing clemency or equilibrium gives you.

[Shurrikhan]

If normal attacks also do twice the damage, you'll keep your tank stance active to keep your HP as high as possible when the TB comes.

If normal attacks do twice the damage, you're looking at typically surviving tankbusters with huge margins because an AA can always go off simultaneously with the TB and you have to be prepared accordingly. Overall, unless AA lockouts are inserted, you'd only see less dynamics and more RNG frustrations in the tanking experience, merely offset to a higher HP amount where your active mitigation or "skill" has less to do with your survival. Accompanied, of course, by lost contribution and enmity control, unless AP were to scale with Vitality (and, in the long run, only Vitality).