Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[Reynhart]

I disagree that VIT is not our main stat, but I agree that its very lackluster and something needs to be done about it.

Like I said, if you want to kill the STR vs VIT debate and the DPS stance meta in one go, you can :
- Remove VIT from accessories completely
- Give us STR accessories back
- Make mobs hit harder
- Make tank stance more powerful

No more gear choice and mandatory chastising.
No more tanking out of tank stance.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

They showed that they cand arbitrary decide what main stats are when they released NIN.

DEX affects NIN's gameplay. What's arbitrary is your definition, where you would be willing to consider VIT the main stat for Samurai if the gear made it appear so.

[Reynhart]

DEX affects NIN's gameplay.

Until 2.4, STR was defined as "Increase melee attack power" and DEX as "Increase ranged attack power"
They arbitraty changed those definitions so that NIN would not compete with MNK and DRG for accessories.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Until 2.4, STR was defined as "Increase melee attack power" and DEX as "Increase ranged attack power"
They arbitraty changed those definitions so that NIN would not compete with MNK and DRG for accessories.

I don't care. That doesn't contradict what I said nor add anything to it.

[Reynhart]

I don't care. That doesn't contradict what I said nor add anything to it.

Problem is, what you said has absolutely no relevance in the game. If SAM could only need on VIT acc (and have traits that boost VIT), your claim that STR is their main stat wouldn't change anything.

[Crater]

Of course, no super tight HP checks to the point that lacking 100 HP will get you killed, but, at least, ensuring that have the full benefit of your ilvl on your Vitality.

This is a literal (and I do mean literal) impossibility.

In order to be clearable, raids can't require HP checks that you can only meet by having the loot that drops from the raid.

Getting those raid drops will increase your iLevel, and therefore HP, because otherwise there's no point in doing them.

The HP from that extra iLevel is unnecessary, because you've already cleared the raid in gear that didn't include the raid drops.

If you want to keep pushing this idea, you need to show the math that makes it work. Far as I know, the math nerds are pretty unanimous on the subject of damage vs HP as progression.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Problem is, what you said has absolutely no relevance in the game. If SAM could only need on VIT acc (and have traits that boost VIT), your claim that STR is their main stat wouldn't change anything.

Are you being intentionally dense?

Of course my saying something wouldn't affect the game; how on Earth could it? I'm pointing out a design flaw.

[VenKitsune]

I disagree that VIT is not our main stat, but I agree that its very lackluster and something needs to be done about it.

VIT is indeed our main stat, its why gear made specifally for us have the biggest number next to VIT. With that being said, its true that extra VIT does not help and that is the issue. Either tweak VIT to make make it more desirable, or change our main stat to something else (more difficult).

Seems like you quoted the wrong person there buddy, i didn't say that.

[Inuakurei]

Seems like you quoted the wrong person there buddy, i didn't say that.

Yup, sorry. I fixed it. I'm terrible at this.

[Ariyn]

Granted I didn't read the entire thread. However, here's my opinion on the matter ...

Currently, most tanks are in a decent spot. Warriors and DRK need a few tweaks to move them more in line with PLD but overall all tanks look good right now. Those crying about not being able to hold agro should really look into finding other tanks to talk to about it to get advice because if you are losing agro to anyone, you're doing something wrong. I run with tanks using full VIT acc (IE no 270 STR ones) and rarely do we ever pull off of them. Usually if we do it's our own fault for not using Diversion in the opener.

As for scaling in the future, you're all correct. They will either have to fix it now or be forced to modify the Emnity gen with every patch. However, they have already stated they will not be tieing it back to VIT and won't be giving tanks STR acc. What they can do though to increase the difficulty and fix some of the scaling issues is to reduce the amount of Vit on acc and add minor amounts of str. Say is an acc currently has 175 VIT they could change that to 100 VIT and 50 STR. This would alleviate some of the scaling issue but not all of it. The bigger issue is tenacity. This is designed to be the scalable slider that they can tune at any point to increase dmg done and reduce dmg taken. However currently it is nothing more than a remade version of parry. We take what we have to but no one will go for it because of how bad the scaling is. If they corrected this issue and made it actually worth something we could control both our dmg output and our dmg intake.

They could also look into stances having more of a role to play. Reduce all tanks mitigation by 15% and add that 15% and an Emnity modifier to tank stance. Adding the modifier also allows for very simple threat changes to be made if need be. They would simply increase the modifier to the stance. Add reduced Emnity, -15% more mitigation and 25% DMG buff to DPS stance. Yes 25% because tank dmg atm is pretty terrible and more mitigation loss to push people away from tanking dungeons/raids in dps stance. DPS stance should be used for OT and soloing, not tanking.

TL;DR
Cut Vit on acc, add lower amounts of str to aid in scaling issues.
Reduce overall tank hp so that bosses can actually threaten/kill tanks with mechanics.
Fix tenacity scaling so we don't have yet again another pointless stat. It's not really pointless, it's actually really good, but the scaling is so bad it's not worth it.
Make use of the stances rather than just tying them to abilities.