Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[aleph_null]

Actually Healer's healing power and damage both scale off of Mind now not not Int. Just figured I should correct you and point that out seeing as you keep saying Int.

I said 'if", it was a hypothetical example to compare the current tank situation with.

[Reynhart]

Attack Power(not necessarilly strength but currently is str) influences everythig a tank does

Everything except one tiny little thing...how they survive. As for healing potency, before level 58, PLD has 0 self healing at all and the only capacity WAR has to heal is 100% tied to its max HP, and thus, vitality.
PLD's Stoneskin back then was affected by max HP, as is Divine Veil, and now, TBN, the most spammable DRK mitigation move, is, again, tied to max HP.

As for enmity, raw attack power is less and less important the more they buff the enmity bonus.

[Duelle]

You remind of what someone once said on Reddit.

The thing is that active mitigation was thrown in for Death Knights in cataclysm to help mitigate their lack of other tank mechanics. It was the only two-handed tank, and as such had a bunch of mechanics to help it to its job (a +max HP +healing received cooldown, a stacked defense buff that fell off when you took hits, built-in parry scaling with STR, self-healing from both a skill and consuming their own minion, and active mitigation to make up for their lack of a shield or super armor boosts). I had no problem with that being the Death Knight style of tanking, since at the time you had bear druids with their huge boosts to armor and HP from going into Bear Form, prot warriors with their straightforward passive defenses & mitigation cooldowns, and prot paladins with their AoE advantage and captain america shield.

That person does make a good point, since active mitigation is pressing short cooldown buttons to create a sort of rotation while tanking. I lean towards old school when it comes to tanking, which is why I prefer cooldowns that are reserved for "oh shit" moments or for planned parts of a fight where I need to mitigate or I die (like a boss getting a damage increase for 30 seconds every minute during a fight, forcing me to use a cooldown to survive the attacks during that phase). That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a job with active mitigation as a central mechanic, so long as it stays exclusive to that class.

I never played WoW. Just TERA. But personally for me active mitigation in TERA was fun because you got a "Defense Successful!" and 0 damage taken every time you blocked something (and depending on the boss, it could be every 3 seconds or something), plus now you get buffs for blocking. And blocking is also a component of animation cancelling which makes gameplay even faster. But to each their own. I understand not everyone will find that fun.

In fairness, TERA's mechanics are very different from your standard tab-target MMO. At least my short time playing it taught me that you simply did not want to get hit by avoidable attacks, so that requires a completely different mindset.

But I do know a lot of players find tanking in FFXIV to be boring outside optimizing their DPS.

I'll be the odd man out, because having the mob's attention (/yandere eyes "he has to look at me and only me!") and letting the DPS do their thing has always been enough for me.

[aqskerorokero]

That change would irritate me to no end. Being able to tank and do damage at the same time is what separates the skilled players from the rest. and the skilled players are working their asses off for it to show. If it was that easy to do top tier damage then tanking really would be boring as hell.

No and no, being able to do that only means you have a good healer that's all, turtle tanks still use cd when needed same as aggressives, depends esclusively on healer's ability to keep a blue icon derps alive.

[aleph_null]

No and no, being able to do that only means you have a good healer that's all, turtle tanks still use cd when needed same as aggressives, depends esclusively on healer's ability to keep a blue icon derps alive.

More like, being able to output good (combined) dps while surviving is what separates good tanks and healers from average tanks and healers. As a tank maximizing group dps doesn't only rely on our personal dps, we need to rely on the other tank as well as the healers in the group. The tanks in the best groups in the game do outstanding dps while allowing their healers to also do outstanding dps. Sure it depends on the healers' ability to keep tanks alive, but it also depends on the tanks' ability to coordinate mitigation and tank swaps to minimize the healing requirements to keep them alive.

[shao32]

That change would irritate me to no end. Being able to tank and do damage at the same time is what separates the skilled players from the rest. and the skilled players are working their asses off for it to show. If it was that easy to do top tier damage then tanking really would be boring as hell.

no other jobs have this discrepancy desing, healers cleric was remove of they old status for the same reason, only tanks are the only ones how have this desing, and i say just remove a pasive debuff, you own skill with you rotation is still there, this change dont go to make magically all tanks dealt the same dps, only keep the good ones dont fight each other and the bad ones will still there until they start to learn if they want.

[YitharV2]

-snip-
In fairness, TERA's mechanics are very different from your standard tab-target MMO. At least my short time playing it taught me that you simply did not want to get hit by avoidable attacks, so that requires a completely different mindset.
I'll be the odd man out, because having the mob's attention (/yandere eyes "he has to look at me and only me!") and letting the DPS do their thing has always been enough for me.

Hmm, if WoW was able to do it, then it's probably possible to balance them both. I think some changes would probably need to made to passive mitigation in FFXIV though.

Yes and no. TERA was based on a damage avoidance system, but you actually didn't have to avoid everything especially if you were geared. In fact, if you were truly optimizing DPS, you'd eat attacks that wouldn't kill you.

It's just for me, if I can watch Netflix or Youtube while doing my job, I think something's wrong.

---

@OP

Someone on reddit who once replied to me about making tanking more engaging:

tera works on a damage avoidance system which is way different from the damage mitigation system we have. On the other hand the engagement mechanics you had on TERA can be partially ported to the game by having active block and mitigation systems.

If tankers had active Shieldblocks/cloak of darkness and party moves that reduced damage if properly timed and instead of relying on pure aggro maintenance we had system were CCing enemies and/or protecting party members were actually part of encounters you could get similar engagement levels. (imagine bosses having phases of enrage where they completely lose aggro but tanks could use stuns, roots, blinds and movement control to allow the party to deal with these moments...)

I don't think FFXIV actually needs much change at all in the way it deals with the holy trinity, though. There is a good market for traditional combat systems.

There are other points of the game progression, challenge and itemization that seem to need urgent reform, though.

[Gravton]

Work with S/E? Ok. You want to know why we have so many offensive tanks? The ONLY reason we have them is because of that stupid/lazy tank swap mechanic in almost every fight. Groups were solo tanking content with 5 dps to clear it faster. S/E came out with the tank swap. Instead of designing content for 2 tanks to actively tank or for one tank and 5 dps. If you are not main tanking, then you are a dps. That is why we have offensive tanks. Remove the tank swap, design content for two active tanks or 5 dps. Lower the demands for tanks, increase the demand for dps. Then only a handful of tanks will prioritize str over vit.

[Inuakurei]

Work with S/E? Ok. You want to know why we have so many offensive tanks? The ONLY reason we have them is because of that stupid/lazy tank swap mechanic in almost every fight. Groups were solo tanking content with 5 dps to clear it faster. S/E came out with the tank swap. Instead of designing content for 2 tanks to actively tank or for one tank and 5 dps. If you are not main tanking, then you are a dps. That is why we have offensive tanks. Remove the tank swap, design content for two active tanks or 5 dps. Lower the demands for tanks, increase the demand for dps. Then only a handful of tanks will prioritize str over vit.

I agree, content is badly designed for multiple tanks. Thats why we should be asking SE to make tanking itself better, not crying over our dps loss. I want SE to put effort into making tanking fun, let them know we want better tank mechanics if they're going to force us into a "pure tank" status while main tanking.

[YitharV2]

I agree, content is badly designed for multiple tanks. Thats why we should be asking SE to make tanking itself better, not crying over our dps loss. I want SE to put effort into making tanking fun, let them know we want better tank mechanics if they're going to force us into a "pure tank" status while main tanking.

My fear is that nothing will be done and I will just end up quitting. I just hope some major changes come out next week, but most likely nothing will drastically change in terms of engagement, because fight design itself would need to be changed. It saddens me because there's so much that could be done to make tanking more engaging but they have it as this thing where you just sit in front of the boss, hold aggro, pop your CDs, and you're done by GCD 10.