From one tank to other tanks..STR Gear is not a thing anymore..Get used to it now!

[bswpayton]

The problem is while you think it is BiS healers are seeing you health tank which causes us to have to stop our DPS (which from what i understand is better than yours) which then makes everything take longer killing the point of taking STR gear. As Annah was saying it IS noticeable when a tank is using STR acc and IT DOES slow things down. You can claim the you don't do it to have higher DSP but you should understand that if a healer has to focus all our effort to healing you the party DPS does drop.

people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Payton....it has nothing to do with how I want them to play. Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR! They even stated that in patch 3.05 that all STR based accessories are going to be locked out from tanks....so when SE is saying and doing these things....how is that solely my opinion? If people do not want to tank solely because they cannot dps high on charts(this is the main excuse I hear all the time from STR minded tanks) then they truly never wanted to be tanks in the first place. I have not seen anything to me that is a detriment to any of the tank jobs thus far....on the contrary....I love what they did with DRK so far and I am level my WAR having the exact same feelings based on me being a WAR in 2.0 to now.

[SinisterJoints]

If they brought so much STR gear a tank buster took them to 5% then they sacrificed a dangerously large about of VIT and I would slap them myself if I were present <.<

well, 120vit per right side accessory adds up....a lot

[shao32]

SE needs to be careful what they do If they did a census now Im sure it would show a drop in tanks, your crazy to think people will just continue to play jobs that SE keeps ruining so your solution of stop tanking is a pretty stupid one. There is already enough people scared to play tank as is lets not ruin the jobs for the good ones just because you think tanks should play how you want them to play

the problem is SE cant do proper conten as this problem still being a thing, for good or bad they need to end the STR meta as soon as posible and probably end with tanking in dps stance too to dont get worried about players skyping mechanics in day 1, overgear is a thing yeah but the weight of skyping come fron this tactics.

[RyuujinZERO]

I am level my WAR having the exact same feelings based on me being a WAR in 2.0 to now.

You feel completely irrelevant because the other tanks are better in every way?

THAT was WAR's lot in 2.0

[SinisterJoints]

From here:



Why do it? Because optimizing DPS is how players have fun, plus DPS is a form of mitigation because you don't have to take as many tankbusters.

It's how SOME players have fun, and the argument that i bolded is literally grasping for straws. The 100-200 extra dps for a tank to wear str accessories MAY push the boss before 1 tankbuster.

[spf1200]

people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

Ok I could be wrong on healers doing more DPS. but my point still stands that the small amount of extra damage you do with STR acc isn't going to make up for the DPS lose from healers having to stop and heal you more often.

[bswpayton]

Payton....it has nothing to do with how I want them to play. Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR! They even stated that in patch 3.05 that all STR based .

If I had to guess the main people who are using the str pieces are hardcore raiders that are much better than your average tank I first saw that they where being used by xenos. If people are wearing these pieces and still clearing the content what does it matter, raids are for statics which means most of the time your healer would know exactly what type of gear your wearing. Your average dungeon running tank isnt wearing str pieces thats why I said why does it matter most of the tanks wearing this aren't gona be running with randoms in raids so I call bs on SE sayiin they are worried that this will make it hard for healers. Simply because the healers running raids are better than your average healer and would already know what their tanks are wearing.

The issue is SE thinks they can force healers and tanks to do the basic parts of their jobs and they just cant and they really should just let people who play the less common roles play how they want to play. Its bad for business when you push people away from jobs that people barely want to play. They should be listening to tanks and healers on how they want to play instead of trying to force their agenda, their not gona stop tanks from tanking in offensive stance their not gona make healers stop dpsing its a waste of time tryin to force the issue. All people will do is come up with some other way to cheese the system maybe even just kick ot out of content like zurvan ex , they just need to stop and embrace the fact tanks want to feel like they are contributing after all they create content around tank and dps damage as they keep sayng.

[Venjenz]

I also noticed, tanks who are in actual tank gear, we drop the mobs faster because I am part of the DPS team too. Pop spell length cool down, thin air?, and spam the hell out of holy...a whm can out dps any tank with STR any day. We can wipe the board with the two other dps when a tank is a tank. (and the most health the tank will ever lose with me during this entire process is probably 25-30% MAX).

The hidden calculation that the defenders of wearing i270 STR gear don't seem to ever consider. Parsing logs for existing Ex fights, and then adjusting for 4 man content because DPS and healers can both DPS easier, the two DPS jobs would be ~65% of overall DPS, and tanks and healers would be close to an even split. This adjustment occurs because in normal 4 man content, no way the healers are as stressed on heals as they are in 8 man Ex, and there is no OT doing their best DPS-only thing.

So basically, they are both about ~17% of overall DPS. Now, for which job would making their DPS easier add the most NET benefit to the entire team? Is it the tank who gets 5-15% more dmg per button press, thus adding 1-3% overall dmg, or is it the healer who now gets to press a "does DPS" button versus a "does not do DPS" button? Does my boosted Decimate hitting for 15-40 extra potency outweigh that extra Holy the WHM casts that take them from 0 potency to 100-200 for that GCD?

Remember - the tank is hitting those buttons ANYWAY. A healer chooses between the heal buttons or DPS as the situation demands. If the tank chooses straight VIT-tankiness, they do indeed lower their personal share of the overall DPS, but in doing so have enabled to the healer to substantially increase their DPS while also making their healing job easier. They now get to choose the DPS button more often than the healing button, taking more button presses from 0 to 200+ potency.

All that said, even if the DPS gain/loss was a net wash (tank DPS decrease exactly offsets healer DPS increase), the survival chance and "smoothness" of the dungeon/trial went up substantially. Not every healer is created equal, nor are all parties where things liking standing in bad, positioning, knowing the fight, etc are concerned. In such a world of uncertainty, it makes more sense for the tank to play to the average and go straight tanky than it does to figure that the other members who you can't pick ahead of time will be geared and skilled enough to let you tank with a reduced EHP pool and focused on DPS instead of taking beatings.

Everyone pays their own sub and I get that, but a lot of "blame the healer" rants are a result of the tank deciding they will play the way they want, and damn that healer for not playing in a way that supports that choice!! Not everyone tanks/gears like me, but hearing it from a healer makes me satisfied that my "VIT-tank 1st, all else 2nd" approach has merit. I just know that I don't seem have the shortage of good healers I read about on the forums. In the game I play, there's proper healers everywhere.

people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

Most parses you see are for 8/24 person content. In that content, healers are far more stressed than they are in normal 4 man stuff, but there is a point not to be missed there - the healers are more stressed on heals. Referring to above - even if the DPS gain/loss exactly balances out with tanks being super tanky, the survivability of the entire group goes up because the tanks are tankier. If you consider the gain/loss of DPS by healers when tanks gain/lose survivability, at best a tank going banzai STR is going to add a net 1-2% DPS to the overall equation. If they go super VIT-tanky, they likewise only lose about 1-2% overall team DPS, but have significantly added to overall team survival, i.e. success.

[Eclipsed]

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that vit accessories actually do affect how easy a tank is to heal? I lack the time or skills to do the math on it... but vit accessories typically have tenacity, which while yes I do understand has negligible effect on how much dmg a tank does it also does have the effect of how much HP cure spells restore and how much dmg a tank takes. That being said, tanks do need to have a viable way to increase damage done. It might not be the primary focus of their role but they do have to have some increase, if nothing else to enable them to do content outside of grouping.