From one tank to other tanks..STR Gear is not a thing anymore..Get used to it now!

[Kosmos992k]

So, if we assume the higher end

That's currently not a very safe assumption, so I would suggest you re-write with reference to the lower bound as well as the upper bound since assuming the most positive possible interpretation skews the entire discussion you are going with.

[Klongol]

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories. If you're a DK, this increase in HP boosts the mitigation provided by TBN by 25% as well. This of course is assuming 2k in Tenacity. When looking at the gear it looks to be really easy to get there as most pieces have it.

If you use STR accessories you gain 15% dps but lose 25% of your HP. You get no additional mitigation, and do not receive any additional healing

I'll take the other bonuses for a 7% loss in DPS.

[BlackironTarkus]

So, if we assume the higher end, Tenacity provide the following boost of 5% per 1k: 5% reduction in ALL damage (magic or otherwise), 5% increase in ALL damage done, and a 5% increase in ALL healing received.

Add in melds to both left and right side for tenacity and you're easily exceeding 2k Tenacity total. On top of this, you keep your 25% larger HP pool

I don't think I'd call a 10% adjustment to ALL 3 areas to be a miniscule bonus. Hell, I'd argue that taking these increases far outweighs the, at most, 15% increase in DPS a tank does with STR accessories.

The increase to healing is only applied to self-healing done, and with 1072 Tenacity my Dark Arts abyssal drain still only drains 88% of it's damage dealt, so it's not augmenting life-steal type healing either.

@ 1076 tenacity (Full vit rightside)
DA-AD 1256 dealt, 1111 healed = 88.45% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 3818 dealt, 3378 healed = 88.47% lifesteal

@ 807 tenacity (2x Vit 3x STR)
DA-AD 1128 dealt, 998 healed = 88.47% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 4098 dealt, 3626 healed = 88.48% lifesteal

@ 364 base tenacity (none from gear):
DA-AD 468 dealt, 414 healed = 88.46% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 1556 dealth, 1376 healed = 88.43% lifesteal

So in 708 points of tenacity my lifesteal increased by 000%. The 0.01 - 0.05% differences I'm going to chalk up to the game's calculations, you can't tell me 0.05% differences are significant, and they even go up by 0.02 and 0.03 with 269 less tenacity. Yeah no. If it was working as advertised my lifesteal %'s should have gone up to 92.87%

Currently Tenacity has zero effect on incoming healing from anyone else, and zero effect on self healing generated by lifesteal. The only thing I've seen it increase in testing has been Paladin's self-healing with clemency.

Even at 2k Tenacity if it's boosting your overall damage by 10% and reducing damage taken by 10% you're forgetting that the loss of other useful secondaries begins to subtract from your 10% damage increase.

[Kosmos992k]

Currently Tenacity has zero effect on incoming healing from anyone else, and zero effect on self healing generated by lifesteal. The only thing I've seen it increase in testing has been Paladin's self-healing with clemency.

Seems like the simple fix - make the impact of Tenacity affect all types of self healing, whether it be spell, trait, ability based on damage done or lifestealing. No reason for it to be otherwise - although if Tenacity also buffs the outdoing damage, there is in effect a double dip, but the amount is small enough to be ignored.

[Klongol]

The increase to healing is only applied to self-healing done

In researching this specifically, there is a thought out there that the healing portion of Tenacity is broken, and the only increase in healing comes from the increase in damage dealt due to Tenacity itself. That would suck, but maybe we'll see a fix in 4.05

Honestly, I'd still take the % damage done and taken along with HP's over the DPS

I won't comment on stat weights and picking one over another right now because in truth, nobody knows the true figures on everything to see which is better in the long run for damage.

[MerleSirlos]

Ah but you see, tanks like you and me who swap accessories situationally don't exist, or so the soap-boxing healers keep telling me

Tanks who wear str accessory to do double trash pull are crazy even I don't dare to do such a thing

On vit I barely survive with all the cd with a average healer on DR

I think those two have the core of it all. A tank has to adapt to the situation. You don't use the same accessories in every situation.
The first time you fight a raid boss is not the same situation as when you are farming it. A raid or dungeon with your static is not the same as doing it with random people.

The problem is people blindly following the trend that str accessories are BiS and use them everywhere everytime!

[RichardButte]

Either they should revert it or add STR to tank gear.

Like someone said, tanks that self-heal via damage get more mileage out of STR right now so that actually means healers need to heal them far less.

As a healer main, i can appreciate that...

[Klongol]

The accessories, at best, melded optimally, give ~400 tenacity, that's closer to 1-2% not 8%, where'd you get that maths from :P

That might be a valid point, but you you're also not coconsidering all the extra crit, det, and sps on the accessories that are 40 ilvls higher than the str ones.

I'm just saying, when you take the total Tenacity you gain from all gear it adds up to a large sum and IMO is worth the trade off. Also, as ilvl increases str gear will perform worse and worse.whereas Tenacity is a scaling % increase which will only get better over time.

[Gravton]

I really don't understand why ppl say vit = mitigation. Hypotheticaly. If I have 20k hp, take a 10k tank buster, and the healer has to do 2 cures to heal the damage taken. If I have 30k hp, take 2 10k tank busters (damage isn't mitigated), the healer needs 4 cures to heal the damage. How is this mitigation? Why are is there an argument to increase tank hp so that healers can dps longer, but in the same breath say tanks are not dps. Neither are healers.

[Klongol]

Higher hp = more leeway for mistakes and possible use of more mana efficient healing methods or spells. It also allows the healer to use an extra cd or two dpsing without worrying about the tank dying.

Extra HP is a form of mitigation by giving breathing room to the healer and group.