Is Prudent Touch too much?

[Nezerius]

To effectively craft the tokens, you wanted to use 13 touches if you had the artisan's mainhand and offhand and you could muster 14 touches with a lucis.

That amount of touches still required a good amount of luck, just as much as baiting a good condition would.

[MN_14]

That amount of touches still required a good amount of luck, just as much as baiting a good condition would.

Not exactly. If you optimized your CP use, you generally got enough good procs to do that around 50% of the time. Skills like ingenuity 2 were a waste of CP so if you used that to save a progress step, you usually messed up your chances for durability restores. For me it was basically 11 stacks of IQ almost 50% of the time and a good proportion of those would be 11-12 successful touches, eliminating the absolute necessity of a proc at the end.

You went with additional durability restores even if it wasn't guaranteed that you might finish your craft with SH2 up (failure to increase the number of touches would result in pretty much a guaranteed failure, eg so it wasn't much of a dilemma).

It's not like you didn't bait for procs even with the additional touches. You did that too to improve your HQ% if possible and in the event that you only landed 10 touches, you also needed to bait.

With the rotation, it would be 11 stacks of IQ 15% of the time, plus the need to bait for a good since your number of touches were topped at 10. Each bait step would give around a 20% chance for a proc. That's how myths about heavy reclaim use and proc baiting are born.

[Nezerius]

Not exactly. If you optimized your CP use, you generally got enough good procs to do that around 50% of the time.

Which is still luck based, since it's possible to not get enough good procs.

You went with additional durability restores even if it wasn't guaranteed that you might finish your craft with SH2 up (failure to increase the number of touches would result in pretty much a guaranteed failure, eg so it wasn't much of a dilemma).

But not having SH2 up to finish the craft wasn't a big deal, since the mats of those items weren't too expensive. Even more so in my case, since I was crafting tokens for the Supra tool, and trying to HQ them at the same time. Meaning even NQ token wouldn't go to waste.

It's not like you didn't bait for procs even with the additional touches. You did that too to improve your HQ% if possible and in the event that you only landed 10 touches, you also needed to bait.

So you're agreeing that if you get unlucky, you'd have to bait for a good proc?

With the rotation, it would be 11 stacks of IQ 15% of the time, plus the need to bait for a good since your number of touches were topped at 10. Each bait step would give around a 20% chance for a proc. That's how myths about heavy reclaim use and proc baiting are born.

I never mentioned heavy reclaim use, although I still used it a few times, in situations where I'd end up failing 5 hasties in a row. But let's just agree to disagree on whether proc baiting is a myth or not.

[MN_14]

Which is still luck based, since it's possible to not get enough good procs.


But not having SH2 up to finish the craft wasn't a big deal, since the mats of those items weren't too expensive. Even more so in my case, since I was crafting tokens for the Supra tool, and trying to HQ them at the same time. Meaning even NQ token wouldn't go to waste.


So you're agreeing that if you get unlucky, you'd have to bait for a good proc?


I never mentioned heavy reclaim use, although I still used it a few times, in situations where I'd end up failing 5 hasties in a row. But let's just agree to disagree on whether proc baiting is a myth or not.

I'm not sure why we are arguing over objective numbers. The myth was that it was impossible to break 30% without proc baiting. That's been proven false.

Anytime RNG is involved there is a luck element. It's how you handle it and change your probabilities that determines your success. Since it's impossible to get 100% each time with RNG involved, you maximize your HQ yield. A rotation based proc baiting strategy definitely yielded far worse HQ yields so a ton of crafters reclaimed like crazy and blew up dozens and dozens of fc3s.

I did the same as you and used NQ tokens to get my supra.

[Nezerius]

I'm not sure why we are arguing over objective numbers. The myth was that it was impossible to break 30% without proc baiting. That's been proven false.

Probably because you brought the myth thing up, when I never mentioned anything about it being impossible to break 30% without it. Of course it's possible to break 30% without it, but I had a much higher success rate whenever I'd bait for a good proc at the end.

[MN_14]

Probably because you brought the myth thing up, when I never mentioned anything about it being impossible to break 30% without it. Of course it's possible to break 30% without it, but I had a much higher success rate whenever I'd bait for a good proc at the end.

Ok, it seems I misunderstood your point. But to me proc baiting is always something that should be done for any craft whenever you're unable to hit 100%.

It's not a primary strategy for me and I consider it to be a secondary backup measure. It did become very important for a decent shot at HQs for the master 2 tokens if you didn't manage at least 13 touches though.