As a new player, running through the Praetorium dungeon was the worst

[Yshnal]

Sure, you may not have blamed them specifically, but you did imply they were rude and selfish. MSQ roulette is a situation where you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours. New players, despite what you think, would be suffering from far longer queues to accomplish anything. Finding 8 people who want to spend an hour in a dungeon that is from years ago is going to be slim. So yes, the roulette gets people in quickly to complete the MSQ while the 'helpers' get some tomes or quick exp.

Also, unrelated to the current reply, but the thread in general:

Cute little sprout getting snippy.


The CM/Prae situation is not ideal, but that's why SE changed their evil ways in later dungeon.

Are you telling me that not caring about a new player's experience when you are getting a reward for having them (the same amount of tomestones that you would get from doing a second run that you won't need to do) is not rude or selfish? But that doesn't mean that the whole playerbase does it, nor it's just its fault. As for the rest of what you said, I already answered it in the post that you got that quote from.

Anyway, what did you try to achieve with that screenshot? He's saying what we are saying, and you call him snippy. Do you find it unreasonable for him to reply like that after you told him to suck it up and miss the dungeon? Because you know fully well that it's not just trash pulls what those that watch cutscenes miss. No, you didn't "need" to keep going, you just decided that you had to, regardless of getting twice as much tomestones thanks to him. I'll say it again: TWICE.

[savageink]

Sure, you may not have blamed them specifically, but you did imply they were rude and selfish.

They are rude and selfish. If they don't want to let the sprouts watch the cutscenes, then they shouldn't do the roulette. The only reason the roulettes exist is so new players can play the content.

[Skivvy]

Are you telling me that not caring about a new player's experience when you are getting a reward for having them (the same amount of tomestones that you would get from doing a second run that you won't need to do) is not rude or selfish? But that doesn't mean that the whole playerbase does it, nor it's just its fault. As for the rest of what you said, I already answered it in the post that you got that quote from.

Anyway, what did you try to achieve with that screenshot? He's saying what we are saying, and you call him snippy. Do you find it unreasonable for him to reply like that after you told him to suck it up and miss the dungeon? Because you know fully well that it's not just trash pulls what those that watch cutscenes miss. No, you didn't "need" to keep going, you just decided that you had to, regardless of getting twice as much tomestones thanks to him. I'll say it again: TWICE.

Are you telling me it's not selfish of the player to make 7 others twiddle their thumbs for 30+ minutes just so they can watch all their cutscenes? DF is a land of compromise. If they want a run where they get to fully immerse themselves in dungeon fights and story, PF is waiting for them.

I get my tomestones doing ancient content, and he doesn't have to waste an evening queuing up for a CM run that may never come to fruition. Both sides benefit from the deal.

And yes, he was getting snippy. I was just explaining the situation. I didn't feel bad for him at all after that.

[Nixxe]

I pretty much doubt it. I've met plenty of nice players that were there to help, or that didn't mind waiting. Also, even if no one went there, then what? At least then the new players would have to find out how to make a party outside of the duty finder, potentially avoiding this issue (something that a lot are suggesting them to do even in the current circumstances). Keep in mind that a lot of new players just use the DF unaware of the other options, or because they didn't have the need to find a FC earlier.

Also, I've never said that it's just the players' fault, in general. We discussed this a lot back in 2013, and both SE and the players didn't do things as they should. The former for not taking into account the western mentality and always thinking the best about the players (this is not the first situation where this happens), and the later for abusing the system whenever they can.

This seems like blind belief in some sort of notion of inherent human goodness than anything based on evidence or rationality. The sheer volume of people who run the MSQ roulette the way they do pretty much speaks to how incredibly rare it is that people are actually willing to sit through the cutscenes for sprouts, though it does make it clear there are still a lot of sprouts progressing through the story. Yeah, I'm sure you meet plenty of nice people, but being a nice person doesn't mean you're going to be willing to spend several hours each day queuing into the MSQ roulette and sitting around twiddling your thumbs just to make sure all the little sprouts can have an uninterrupted cutscene experience with reasonable queue times.

They are rude and selfish. If they don't want to let the sprouts watch the cutscenes, then they shouldn't do the roulette. The only reason the roulettes exist is so new players can play the content.

And you're fulfilling that role by queuing into the dungeon and clearing it, giving them quest credit and allowing them to continue with the MSQ. You're not signing a contract to wait for every last person to watch every cutscene when you join the queue. You guys are ridiculously egocentric.

[Hestzhyen]

I got to level 50 and ran this for MSQ back when i70 gear was all the rage. Even back then when it could still be somewhat new, people were speed-running and forcing newbies to skip something: either the cutscenes or the fights. I chose the latter for my first run understanding that asking 7 people to wait for me to finish watching 30-40 minutes of cutscenes they had already seen was too selfish. They were fine with it, though I had to skip a few of the longer ones once they got to the Ultima fight since that was still a little challenging and the other healer wasn't comfortable solo healing it. I watched everything else at the inn later, and while it wasn't ideal, it worked.

I feel bad for sprouts who want to experience it as SE envisioned, but you can't reasonably expect seven people to wait for you to watch everything before moving on. SE learned from their mistakes here (can't design MMO story dungeon content with the same approach as single-player!) and sprouts can still watch it later. It's a sucky situation but it's only there for these two dungeons. I try to help them find their way if they get lost and tell them about watching it later if they get upset, but if they piss and moan about being rushed then it's tough cookies. It's been happening since the dungeon came out and the other 7 aren't going to /sit and /dance for each story segment. They shouldn't have to, either.

[missybee]

The only reason the roulettes exist is so new players can play the content.

I will agree with you that this is a big part of the reason main scenario roulette exists, but to suggest that all of the roulettes exist for new players...

I have to vehemently disagree.

[savageink]

You guys are ridiculously egocentric.

As are you.

[Yshnal]

Are you telling me it's not selfish of the player to make 7 others twiddle their thumbs for 30+ minutes just so they can watch all their cutscenes? DF is a land of compromise. If they want a run where they get to fully immerse themselves in dungeon fights and story, PF is waiting for them.

I get my tomestones doing ancient content, and he doesn't have to waste an evening queuing up for a CM run that may never come to fruition. Both sides benefit from the deal.

And yes, he was getting snippy. I was just explaining the situation. I didn't feel bad for him at all after that.

That's why you have the new player bonus, which is incredibly generous in CM and Prae. As I said, and I'm going to say it for the last time (as it keeps getting ignored), that bonus saves you from having to run anything else to get it. So yes, it's selfish to get that, and then screw the player that is having you get it. You're just telling me that you like getting double the reward without doing anything in exchange, and that's the very definition of rudeness and selfiness. On top of that you try to make a normal reply (in that situation) look as if those evil sprouts are the ones acting bad.

This seems like blind belief in some sort of notion of inherent human goodness than anything based on evidence or rationality. The sheer volume of people who run the MSQ roulette the way they do pretty much speaks to how incredibly rare it is that people are actually willing to sit through the cutscenes for sprouts, though it does make it clear there are still a lot of sprouts progressing through the story. Yeah, I'm sure you meet plenty of nice people, but being a nice person doesn't mean you're going to be willing to spend several hours each day queuing into the MSQ roulette and sitting around twiddling your thumbs just to make sure all the little sprouts can have an uninterrupted cutscene experience with reasonable queue times.

You make it sound as if every run has a new player, when it's not that way. So, if less people queued up for the story, it would just mean less runs without new players. And even then, aside from everything else that I told you on that post and that you didn't take into acount for your reply, if the worst came to happen then it would force SE to finally fix these dungeons.

And you're fulfilling that role by queuing into the dungeon and clearing it, giving them quest credit and allowing them to continue with the MSQ. You're not signing a contract to wait for every last person to watch every cutscene when you join the queue. You guys are ridiculously egocentric.

You act as if you're making them a favour, when we both know that you run those dungeons because you want something out of it. So you both benefit and, on top of that, you get your reward doubled thanks to the new player. Taking that into consideration, by rushing the dungeon it's clear who is benefiting more.

[Paladinleeds]

As are you.

Here's the thing, you could probably multiply the rewards you get by a factor of 10, in exchange for forcing everyone to watch the cutscenes if there's a new player there, but you'd likely end up with a dead roulette. It's already somewhat dead. At this point SE need to say "Stuff it, we'll make it a solo instance", grab 7 AI companions (it creates a party composition based on your current job), and then away you go into a solo duty. I would love to let the newbies watch the cutscenes and partake in the fights but I'll be outvoted every time pretty much. And I'm just one person, I alone can't do anything.

[Vhailor]

Just ran through the Praetorium dungeon to finish up the ARR story and it was rushed the whole way until the last boss. From my experiences with previous dungeons, I've just given up completely on watching cutscenes and now watch them prior/after.

Also one asshole at the end decided that allowing people to watch a few lengthy cutscenes wasn't part of his agenda so he typed up a big paragraph which I'm pretty sure included key story points and spoilers from both Heavensward and Stormblood. So now before I've even gotten around to buying the Stormblood expansion, there are a few things I now know beforehand which pisses me off..

I don't get why some people need to go to these lengths just because a dungeon takes a little longer than expected. I don't know, maybe my anger isn't warranted, but what's wrong with those who want to be invested into the story/lore of game they play. Yeah we're a couple years late to the party, but what gives....

I'm sorry you had such a rotten experience; it's definitely been this way for a long time now. It's downright shameful that SE hasn't gone back and modified the dungeon to resolve these problems. As others have mentioned, it does get better as far as cutscenes go - but you'll still have the fights cheesed, unfortunately (Heavensward's final fight, in particular, has way too soft an iLevel cap, which means it's an utter faceroll with any pickup group you get).

As an aside, if you ever see a player intentionally spoiling storyline again in frustration, report them for harassment. It would serve them right to get smacked with a temporary ban.

Edited to include an additional response:

This seems like blind belief in some sort of notion of inherent human goodness than anything based on evidence or rationality. The sheer volume of people who run the MSQ roulette the way they do pretty much speaks to how incredibly rare it is that people are actually willing to sit through the cutscenes for sprouts, though it does make it clear there are still a lot of sprouts progressing through the story. Yeah, I'm sure you meet plenty of nice people, but being a nice person doesn't mean you're going to be willing to spend several hours each day queuing into the MSQ roulette and sitting around twiddling your thumbs just to make sure all the little sprouts can have an uninterrupted cutscene experience with reasonable queue times.

Hours? F*cking seriously? Exaggeration much? A full CS run through the MSQ will take one hour, tops. And who in the hell is queueing for the MSQ Roulette every single day? It is completely unrelated to end-game progression (no Tomestones of note are awarded), and it's unnecessary from an XP standpoint. There is absolutely nothing that is compelling players to run it. So if you're feeling like an impatient ass, go do something else, rather than queueing and throwing a fit about how much time it takes. You're like a volunteer at a soup kitchen yelling at people to move through the line quicker. If you don't want to do it, don't do it.