To the DPS META and please be reasonable with arguments

[Taika]

In casual content (everything you pug int his game) is ok to not dps as a healer

No it's not (as long as the party and run is otherwise standard and extensive healing isn't constantly required). Healers and tanks are expected to actively participate just like their other party members. And since healing alone doesn't keep you as active as your team mates, you're expected to contribute with DPS as well. Especially now that you don't even have to swap in to cleric stance for it. Similarly, tanks are expected to do more than spam Flash and 1-2-3 in tank stance over and over and over.

What is it with this role obsession?

This x1000000000000. No one cares what your role is called or what colour icon you have, they care about what you can do to help your group, and if you're willing to do that or not.

[Inuk9]

No it's not (as long as the party and run is otherwise standard and extensive healing isn't constantly required). Healers and tanks are expected to actively participate just like their other party members. And since healing alone doesn't keep you as active as your team mates, you're expected to contribute with DPS as well. Especially now that you don't even have to swap in to cleric stance for it. Similarly, tanks are expected to do more than spam Flash and 1-2-3 in tank stance over and over and over.


This x1000000000000. No one cares what your role is called or what colour icon you have, they care about what you can do to help your group, and if you're willing to do that or not.

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing. And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

[DRKoftheAzure]

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing. And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

So many questions right there... I don't even know which question to ask...

[Taika]

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing. And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

You can kick people for different playstyles, and this definitely falls under that.

But I won't automatically kick a healer who doesn't DPS. I will ask them nicely to participate with DPS when no one needs healing. Then if they refuse without any reason than "lol no that's not my job", I will initiate the kick (although even then I will probably first try to explain why it is their job and why it is so useful for the whole group). And I would do the same with a BRD who refuses to sing or refresh TP/MP because they're called DPS. :P

(Edit addition: If they say they really can't right at the moment because of being super nervous or having a massive headache and just trying to get through the instance or whatever, that's fine. What I can't stand is not trying to put some effort and intentionally making the rest of your party work much harder than you are.)

[Sylve]

explain why it is their job

Wait ... What? My job is to refill the blue bars in my party list.

You want me to do my own Job while also doing the job of the two individuals in the party whose express purpose is dealing damage?
Correct me if I'm wrong here, But isn't the reason for DD jobs existing is handle the DPS aspect of party play?

Basic/Standard play for Tanks is using Enmity combos to maintain enmity while utilizing various Job skills to reduce incoming damage.
Advanced play for tanks is making use of non Enmity skills and abilities to maximize damage output while maintaining mitigation and enmity.

Basic/Standard play for Healers is using the various Healing skills to keep the party alive and utilizing various Job skills to affect the party in a beneficial manner (AST card buffs, Selene speed buff etc).
Advanced play for Healers is utilizing non healing skills for dealing damage or causing more damage to be dealt to the target in general while maintaining the health of the party.

Basic/Standard play for Damage Dealers is to execute a rotation of core damaging skills to deal damage.
Advanced play for Damage Dealers is to ... Execute a rotation of core damaging skills to deal damage.


For people to boot a Healer in standard content for the crime of playing at a standard level is ridiculous.
You know what would help in getting Healers comfortable with DPSing while Healing? Not pulling entire rooms at once during the leveling process. Introduce the Healer to the concept of helping out with damage when no one needs healing.
Do it politely and give calm reasoning as to why its beneficial for them to do so. Get them into the habit of applying damage skills in an environment where a mistake wont automatically kill the party.

But that requires interaction with the party and might slow down the run from 20 minutes to 21 minutes.
And as we know, We just can't stand being in that dungeon we queued up for even one second longer than absolutely necessary as defined arbitrarily by 4 different players at once.

-_-

TL;DR, Teach people how to go the extra mile with calm instruction.

+1, no one annoys healers to just dps in a basic way. What we hate is to see someone acting like speaking on facebook or watching a movie on his second screen while others are carrying him using the argument of being healer.

This reasoning always amuses the hell out of me.
If the healer stopped performing their basic job, Your run stops dead.

So who, really, is carrying whom?

[Taika]

Wait ... What? My job is to refill the blue bars in my party list.

You want me to do my own Job while also doing the job of the two individuals in the party whose express purpose is dealing damage?
Correct me if I'm wrong here, But isn't the reason for DD jobs existing is handle the DPS aspect of party play?

In group content, all team members share one goal: kill the enemies and make sure all team members survive. Each team member should do what they can to help the party achieve this goal, by using all the tools available to them in a manner most helpful for their party. It doesn't matter what one's role name is called, everyone should do their best to be as effective party members as possible and use all of their useful abilities. In this game it's very easy for healers to effectively contribute to DPS in 99% of the time, and when you're able to give that contribution, there's no logical reason not to. And crying "but it's not my job because of my role name / colour of my icon" is just ridiculous.

Introduce the Healer to the concept of helping out with damage when no one needs healing.
Do it politely and give calm reasoning as to why its beneficial for them to do so. Get them into the habit of applying damage skills in an environment where a mistake wont automatically kill the party.

This is exactly what I said I'm doing in the post you quoted and replied to.

[Fannah]

This reasoning always amuses the hell out of me.
If the healer stopped performing their basic job, Your run stops dead.

So who, really, is carrying whom?

You just misunderstood our point. There is nothing wrong with my statement. We are talking about the not playing ones using like one heal every 15sec, like if they are just chilling watching a series aside. No one said healing doesn't matter, we said slacking healers suck --> you see them not playing while they could contribute to the fight a lot. Their dps is actually very high in low levels. Your role is to use all your abilities to help your team the best you can actually. Your role = your skills and their effects.

Btw, healers don't carry anyone. It's a team game, with a system made so we need everyone, in the sense that everyone carry everyone. But you must be the type of players who, if they play DPS, won't use Goad to give TP back "it's not my role". As a ninja, you won't help the tank to get more aggro as "it's not my role". As a magic dps, you won't give healers mana back as "it's not my role" and won't defend anyone with Apocatastasis as "it's not your role". It must be fun to work with you IRL "sorry I can't help, it's not in my contract" "oh a door, how can I open it, I haven't be hired to open it, I should call a specialist".
You must also be the kind of tank like "the dps pulled, the dps will tank".

And on my side, I would just ask if the person can contribute to the dps in fight politely, and even if the person refuse, I don't kick, I'm just pissed at how selfish this person is.

Just do your best, as the 3 or 7 other people are doing for the team.

Btw, I'm main tank (just in case you thought I was main dps), I stop performing my basic job, your run stops dead. If you struggle with healing a tank, have fun with healing a dps. I only speak about content that matter of course, no one need a healer or a tank in low level dungeons as long as one of them do his job right.

[Powercow]

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing

Yes you can.

And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

No you can't.

[Inuk9]

Yes you can.

No you can't.

No you can't and yes you can. If you show a log to a gm because people kicked you out of a dungeons for not dpsing as healer, they can get suspended. Saw it happens more than 1 time. You can believe what you want tho.