Enthusiastic Tanks

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Can't stop won't stop! The best tanks still pull 10 or more mobs before stopping, so clearly that's the right way to play.

[Sacerdos]

I think its fun when the tank pulls a lot and I'm doing my best to keep up while throwing Aero 3 and Holy in if I have oGCDs available to cover.

The only problem I have is when the DPS is brain dead and can't AoE well (BLMs not knowing their Flare rotation for example) or gets hit by AoE and possibly dies while I need to focus all healing on the tank. Bad dps is the worst.

[Nowakii]

Am i the only one who pradctically begs the tanks to do big pulls? i love them it makes the game feel fun ! what i hate are those bad Dps who keep getting hit by stuff... im sorry this a big pull and i need all my stuffs to keep the tank alive so use your own stuff to stay alive DPs please.....As others already stated why do i even need my big CDs on a dungeon boss? ...
TL;DR i love big pulls, sorry not sorry.

[Kethic]

I'm glad this thread has continued, and has stayed mostly in the realm of healthy conversation.

In the end, we all want to clear our dungeom farm as fast as possible. Each day we have a different tolerance for stress. Ideally, there would be a which conversation at the start of the dungeon, but that doesn't happen too often. Perhaps we could make that more of a norm.

We should also decide on a definition for Big.

[Aescwhisky]

If a tank says they are new I am quite happy to let them pick the pace and if all is wel tell them that they can feel free to pull more if they want. Newer tanks haven't had the time to learn how to best judge group ability levels.

[Enla]

I honestly prefer big pulls even as a SCH in the current metagame and quite enjoy the synergy that comes from healing a tank who is smart about weaving in their cooldowns. Only time I despise larger pulls is when the tank arbitrarily decide that cooldowns are for chumps or that standing in DPS stance for the boss is a good idea. Otherwise go for it!

[winsock]

You are wasting what would be damage GCD's and mana healing you to help your personal DPS increase.

If it results in a net gain for the party as a whole, it isn't wasting the healer's GCD.

As a quick napkin-math example, say you have 10 targets. 1 holy would be worth about 1300 potency. On a PLD under FoF, dropping tank stance is a 275 potency increase per gcd of TE, so if a PLD can do 5 TE before costing a WHM an *additional* gcd (meaning on top of the GCDs the would miss out on regardless), dropping tank stance is worth it (and that is before CoS and auto attacks)

That isn't a tight metric to meet, esp given the diminishing returns on damage reduction.

[Feidam]

If it results in a net gain for the party as a whole, it isn't wasting the healer's GCD.

As a quick napkin-math example, say you have 10 targets. 1 holy would be worth about 1300 potency. On a PLD under FoF, dropping tank stance is a 275 potency increase per gcd of TE, so if a PLD can do 5 TE before costing a WHM an *additional* gcd (meaning on top of the GCDs the would miss out on regardless), dropping tank stance is worth it (and that is before CoS and auto attacks)

That isn't a tight metric to meet, esp given the diminishing returns on damage reduction.

That's only if the damage measures up. Just because the potency is equal doesn't mean the attack did the same amount of damage. So if the healer damage for the gcd is naturally higher due to scaling then it would take even more from the tank to make up the deficit during that gcd or vice versa if a tanks is higher.

[Fannah]

From his tank stance, the warrior only has +20% from healing spells (except if you have heals according to max HP, then the tank stance of warriors also up their HP by 25%). So it's like every 5 heals, you would gain one. So I don't believe we can see it like "healers could use tons of dmg if the tank were in tank stance". And I believe the tank see himself like "I have to land attacks anyway to keep enmity on", so better having them way stronger with defensive CD once enough enmity has been generated.

I told about the 31.25% more dmg just by the % bonus and malus difference. But there is also the access to more powerful skills (so it's more than just 31.25%), and also a bonus up to +10% crit in dps stance (with the 10 stacks of rage, so I believe it's 1% crit bonus per rage point).

I just mean a huge part of the tankyness of a warrior is not coming only from his tank stance, but a lot from his CD too. Of course both are needed.

I think that the problem is coming from the "I'm the leader' side of the tank, and everytime we queue for roulette, it's written "bonus for playing tank as it's the rarest role played" so they feel even more as rare leader people need. It's not on purpose but I believe the system to kinda make them feel so (as some just ask to be kicked so they will get another party but know that usually dps won't dare to waste time as they wasted enough, and the tank knows it). It's important to communicate, and the problem if there is no communication is that the one who has to initiate fights is the head of the party. Someone may be too slow and he will have to be aware and slow the pace, but he still is the one who take the decision for going for the next step 83% of the time (source statistic provided by the Pr. Barney Stinson).

[OcieKo]

I also find tanks who chain pull quickly are rare in this game, and many who mass pull do that stop and go BS thats just detrimental. Personally as a tank/healer I prefer to just jump from small pull to small pull quickly. And quite frankly the "speedy way" loses a lot of its speed when you have to wait on healer MP or you wipe, and god help us if they try to mass pull with like MNK/DRG/RDM for DPS, SMN/BLM/SAM/NIN if not garbage players can usually finish off a pull in AOE (no opinion on BRD/MCH yet as I havent seen enough of them AoEing yet). Far rather have time to DPS than be worrying if a tank will survive for 6 sec or not.