DRK - Excessive Dark Arts

[MiniPrinny]

You're mashing Dark Arts now, but when you hit 70 and have The Blackest Night, it curbs Dark Arts usage. Its still more than we were doing in HW, but it does calm down.

Only it doesn't, since outside of using it for defense or using it to get an easy 50 blood for Delirium, TBN is a damage loss.

[MoarLegion]

Only it doesn't, since outside of using it for defense or using it to get an easy 50 blood for Delirium, TBN is a damage loss.

People keep saying this but I fail to understand how. You're taking 140 potency of MP and turning it into 380 potency, the MP cost of which is paid for by the time you can even use TBN again. You're only delaying 1 SS/SE combo per minute, or half a dark arts and 10 blood, so you're not delaying your mp regen by any significant amount.

Provided you always have CnS paid for, I cannot understand how turning 140 potency into 380 as often as possible is a DPS loss.

[SyzzleSpark]

People keep saying this but I fail to understand how. You're taking 140 potency of MP and turning it into 380 potency, the MP cost of which is paid for by the time you can even use TBN again. You're only delaying 1 SS/SE combo per minute, or half a dark arts and 10 blood, so you're not delaying your mp regen by any significant amount.

Provided you always have CnS paid for, I cannot understand how turning 140 potency into 380 as often as possible is a DPS loss.

You're not taking 140 potency and turning it into 380 because that 380 is on the GCD. DA is basically a 140 potency off-GCD.

Whenever you're mathing how much of a potency gain something that is on the GCD is, you have to weight it against the existing average potency per GCD.

When you spend a DA's worth of mana to get an extra BS by using TBN, you're only getting a net 240 potency (380-140). And that 240 potency is exactly 10 less than the average PPGCD. Ergo, its a loss. Yes its a small one, but its a far cry from the "spam TBN on CD to proc more Bloodspillers because its a 380 potency gain!"

Honestly someone should delete this thread. The problem with DRK isn't our DA usage, its that we're the lowest tank DPS and offer less utility than PLD.

[Chrono_Rising]

The problem with DRK isn't our DA usage, its that we're the lowest tank DPS and offer less utility than PLD.

I feel the same, the dps problem is that we cannot spam Dark Arts enough to match the potency increase achieved by Warrior and Paladin. For dps, I think drk needs more ways to regenerate mana for more dark arts or moving our GCD blood skills to oGCD skills. What do you think?

I also think shadow wall needs either more time, more utility or a shorter cool down (mitigation of vengence, cooldown time and duration of sentinel, and 0 utility) but thats a different post.

[SyzzleSpark]

I feel the same, the dps problem is that we cannot spam Dark Arts enough to match the potency increase achieved by Warrior and Paladin. For dps, I think drk needs more ways to regenerate mana for more dark arts or moving our GCD blood skills to oGCD skills. What do you think?

I also think shadow wall needs either more time, more utility or a shorter cool down (mitigation of vengence, cooldown time and duration of sentinel, and 0 utility) but thats a different post.

Here is what I would do:

1. Make Shadow Wall last 20 seconds (instead of simply buffing the % or shortening the cooldown - this will make it unique and not simply a clone of Vengeance/Sentinel)
2. Add a CD exclusive to tank stance or with an MP cost (something that costs DPS) that increases our Parry rate and has a 50% chance to proc a -10% damage taken (like a personal Eye 4 an Eye buff) that makes up for the loss of the old Dark Dance+Reprisal synergy and gives us a Clemency/IB equivalent. Currently DRK does not have one of these extra CDs that costs damage but rounds out our CD suite, whereas WAR and PLD do.
3. Double the potency of Plunge, Carve and Spit, and Salted Earth, and increase their recast times by 15-20s. This will be a DPS gain, reduce oGCD bloat, and bring us up to speed in DPS.

[saber_alter]

Only it doesn't, since outside of using it for defense or using it to get an easy 50 blood for Delirium, TBN is a damage loss.

prior to 4.01 it was a 15dps loss outside of grit. with the damage increase to Bloodspiller more information is needed.

[Shinkyo]

prior to 4.01 it was a 15dps loss outside of grit. with the damage increase to Bloodspiller more information is needed.

To this day, I still dont understand why it was a potency loss in 4.0.
our SE combo is 680 total potency for 3 GCD, so 226.67 potency average/GCD. Even with the old 380 potency from BS, that was still ~153 potency gain from BS over 140 from DA.
It was a small difference and given that you do take the risk of TBN not breaking (if you don't time it right or at the right opportunity), DA is much more safe to use.


Personally, I love the DA design. it's burst damage through mechanical input rather than passive dmg buff. It feels very engaging, especially since we have less oGDC than 3.0.
I really love 4.0 even though I think DRK could need a slight damage boost overall but that's just tweaks on potency numbers and maybe extending TBN duration to 6 sec (same as Inner Beast and equivalent of 2 server ticks).
The class itself is solid IMO.