4.0 MCH is Weak

[CosmicKirby]

This.

Again, the punishing nature of the rotation would make sense if MCH's DPS when the rotation was on point was creeping up on the top in the game (at least top 4), and failing it dropped you to MCH's current point.

They either need to increase the potency outright by a LOT (like make heated attacks nearly 2X their current potency) or make it overall less punishing to accidentally overheat.

Again, considering Wildfire is a minute cooldown, Barrel Stabilizer is 2 minutes, and Flamethrower only 1 minute. I think it's pretty obvious square WANTED us to overheat for every Wildfire, then reheat quickly with Barrel/Flamethrower.

It's just hilarious that their math is so off that it's just 'barely' a dps gain to do it perfectly with Barrel Stabilizer, and a horrible dps lose to get stuck overheating only to use Flamethrower.

Flamethrower is easily the most underwhelming max level ability I've seen in an MMORPG. What happened?

[Ryaz]

Again, considering Wildfire is a minute cooldown, Barrel Stabilizer is 2 minutes, and Flamethrower only 1 minute. I think it's pretty obvious square WANTED us to overheat for every Wildfire, then reheat quickly with Barrel/Flamethrower.

It's just hilarious that their math is so off that it's just 'barely' a dps gain to do it perfectly with Barrel Stabilizer, and a horrible dps lose to get stuck overheating only to use Flamethrower.

Flamethrower is easily the most underwhelming max level ability I've seen in an MMORPG. What happened?

Flamethrower would be better if it were a fire and forget ability. A 60 potency DoT where you could still keep attacking and build heat would be much better than what it is now.

[Fingerhut]

Overheating with every Wildfire would be okay. But you don't get much skills inside the 10s frame and after the absolute underwhelming damage of wildfire you loose the 5% damage buff and the higher potencys of the hell shots wich overall isn't worth even being considered. The loss is greater than the gain.

I think the fight should be started with flamethrower and Barrel Stabilizer is more of a "oh shit, I messed up". But overall you should always lose damage when you overheat and you get significantly punished for more than 10s (cooldown+ gauss activation time+another cooldown to get heat).
And I realy don't get the design of the flamethrower. Why does it so low damage and why does it definitly lead into overheating if you let it channel?

For me personaly the MCH needs some rework in the mechanic itselfe and the flamethrower. And Wildfire: 25% of your damage in 10s is not much with extremly high global cooldowns. A critical shot deals more damage than that..

[Fannah]

Flamethrower would be better if it were a fire and forget ability. A 60 potency DoT where you could still keep attacking and build heat would be much better than what it is now.

Just to be sure you're not misled or misleading people. Its "60 potency DoT" is actually a 180 potency DoT. DoTs in the game deal dmg every 3 seconds. Flamethrower deals dmg every second. So you can multiply Flamethrower potency per 3 to compare it to other DoT skills.

And to compare it with normal skills, you can multiply it by 2.5 (the base GCD, so 60*2.5 = 150 potency) and then, for the GCD skill part, you divide your GCD skill's potency (like Split Shot) by your current GCD (according to your skill speed), then you multiply this number by the base GCD. So for exemple, if you have a 2.3s GCD, and you want to compare Flamethrower to Split Shot (160 potency), you can do 160/2.3*2.5 = 174 potency.
And to get the Potency Per Second, you just divide your GCD potency by your current GCD (so 160/2.3 = 70potency per second).

[Ryaz]

Just to be sure you're not misled or misleading people. Its "60 potency DoT" is actually a 180 potency DoT. DoTs in the game deal dmg every 3 seconds. Flamethrower deals dmg every second. So you can multiply Flamethrower potency per 3 to compare it to other DoT skills.

And to compare it with normal skills, you can multiply it by 2.5 (the base GCD, so 60*2.5 = 150 potency) and then, for the GCD skill part, you divide your GCD skill's potency (like Split Shot) by your current GCD (according to your skill speed), then you multiply this number by the base GCD. So for exemple, if you have a 2.3s GCD, and you want to compare Flamethrower to Split Shot (160 potency), you can do 160/2.3*2.5 = 174 potency.
And to get the Potency Per Second, you just divide your GCD potency by your current GCD (so 160/2.3 = 70potency per second).

True, but you're still looking at 600 potency total over 10 seconds in a cone with a one minute cool down and you can't move or attack during that time. Samurai's Guren does 800 potency (and more if you catch multiple enemies) oGCD, albeit with twice the cool down, but it also doesn't stop our rotation and have to worry about mechanics canceling it out. Heck, Higanbana, our 1 Sen Iajutsu, buffed with Kaiten does 1,410 potency over that same one minute of time (though only to 1 target). ((240+(35*20))x1.5=1410.

Flamethrower isn't terrible... I just don't see a reason why it should stop all attacks and movement for the damage it does.

[Elnidfse]

Again, considering Wildfire is a minute cooldown, Barrel Stabilizer is 2 minutes, and Flamethrower only 1 minute. I think it's pretty obvious square WANTED us to overheat for every Wildfire, then reheat quickly with Barrel/Flamethrower.

It's just hilarious that their math is so off that it's just 'barely' a dps gain to do it perfectly with Barrel Stabilizer, and a horrible dps lose to get stuck overheating only to use Flamethrower.

Flamethrower is easily the most underwhelming max level ability I've seen in an MMORPG. What happened?

You're not supposed to overheat every WF. you use FT to enter 90 heat to double cooldown and only overheat when BS is up.
1) Flamethrower removes your AA, which results in lower single target damage
2) Overheating every wildfire without FT is unrealistic.

[NoctisXV]

Hi everyone.

I usually don’t post on the official forum but as a main MCH since it was released in Heavensward I decided to come to post my feedback regarding the “new” MCH, thinking that maybe if we are a lot disappointed by what became the class Yoshi-P maybe will consider to give to all my MCH bros some love they truly deserve.

Well I would start by saying that forgive me for my bad english it's not my native language but I think posting in the English forum in this existing thread was the best option so far.

I’m starting to think that Square Enix doesn’t like the class. When it first came out with Heavensward it was really weak already and some people in pf didn’t reserve any slots for MCH because of its lack of DPS and it seems this is happening again with the new MCH.
Square Enix what have you done, why MCH always have to be put aside compared to all other classes of the game ? Why ?!

MCH rotation in 3.0 was very demanding compared to some other classes but we had a decent DPS and the class was nothing compared to the weak class it was for Heavensward release, thanks to Square Enix who made the welcomed changes (but too late imo).
With this 4.0 version I decided to continue to play MCH because it was my main class but after playing a lot with it, doing dungeons/extreme trials and trying to figure it out the "best" rotation sadly I have to say that I’m done with the class. I mean I was happy to not have cast times anymore for the class but come’ on MCH is the weakest DPS of the game for the effort you put in it and in your rotation...

What about the new heat gauge ? Even if the idea was kinda cool I have to admit that it’s not fun to have to constantly keep an eye on it rather than what’s happening during the fight and if you overheat by mistake your DPS is done with bad recovery.

Well I have read the thread and everything has already been said, just wanted to share my disappointment I have with the class now and I truly hope that Square Enix will hear the complains and will buff and change the job. For now I'm done with it, I give up I can't continue to play a class so demanding in effort for no rewarding DPS. It's like MCH is using a toy gun shooting foam bullets, enough for me time to level up another DPS

Sad because I wanted to play Omega with my fav class but it won't be the case and I will not touch it again until good changes are made.

[CosmicKirby]

You're not supposed to overheat every WF. you use FT to enter 90 heat to double cooldown and only overheat when BS is up.
1) Flamethrower removes your AA, which results in lower single target damage
2) Overheating every wildfire without FT is unrealistic.

Yes, I know. I'm saying it's clear that Square WANTS us to use Flamethrower so we can overheat for every wildfire. But Flamethrower is a Shadowflare that clips into about 3 GCDs for only 10 more potency.

Using Flamethrower at ALL is a massive dps loss. The only time Overheating isn't AT BEST a net gain of 0% dps (Considering it's 10% for 10 seconds, 0% for 10 seconds) is when you're using Wildfire and have Barrel Stabilizer to heat back up in the same OGCD you put Gauss Barrel back on. Using Flamethrower to reheat in this manner is still a dps loss.

True, but you're still looking at 600 potency total over 10 seconds in a cone with a one minute cool down and you can't move or attack during that time. Samurai's Guren does 800 potency (and more if you catch multiple enemies) oGCD, albeit with twice the cool down, but it also doesn't stop our rotation and have to worry about mechanics canceling it out. Heck, Higanbana, our 1 Sen Iajutsu, buffed with Kaiten does 1,410 potency over that same one minute of time (though only to 1 target). ((240+(35*20))x1.5=1410.

You should never do this. All 10 seconds leads to an Overheat, a massive DPS loss. Unless you're going for a really heavy burn phase that uses Hypercharge, and Bishop overcharge. (which would be like 1 full minute before your DPS is anything but terrible again.)

Flame thrower is actually terrible. For the reason stated in your next sentence.

[Elnidfse]

Yes, I know. I'm saying it's clear that Square WANTS us to use Flamethrower so we can overheat for every wildfire. But Flamethrower is a Shadowflare that clips into about 3 GCDs for only 10 more potency.

In 3.x we swapped between wildfire and mildfire. Barrel Stabilizer exists to allow us to wildfire. While when that's on cooldown we get to mildfire. Flamethrower exists only as a tool to push to 90 heat (for double cooldowns) or overheat (when BS is up) and only for that reason in a raid. On the topic of GCD, you can weave it for 1-3 ticks with no GCD loss. It isn't the case that it was designed to reheat or push into an overheat every time as the potency and percentage changes they'd have to do for that to NOT be a DPS loss is nuts.

The 3.x dynamic that existed before. The fact that this would still be the case even if OH was 20%. But, the fact that hypercharge is off cooldown with every overheat wildfire is the biggest supporting example

[ToasterMan]

Why are bullets weaker than a bow and arrow?