Let me do my job please...

[ed3891]

...

I would caution, first and foremost, against misconstruing my previous post as a flat defense of rude behavior from any source. My aim was to avoid that by emphasizing that this isn't an issue that's the fault of any particular role, but that we all collectively need to think less about getting ours and ours alone, and think more about making a team effort regardless of who we're paired with in whatever content.

You've got to consider that tanking is incredibly difficult for a number of reasons. Impatience from the DPS, the healer, etc. isn't going to help a situation where a tank is new, or even if they're not exactly new, inexperienced with a particular dungeon or raid. Tanks are hard to come by, yeah, and good tanks moreso - but the fact is that you're rarely given leeway on a tank job to learn a dungeon or a trial fight unless you were there when the content was released and brand new. For as many people as are willing to be patient and supportive of a new tank, there are just as many inclined to brook no quarter, and enough harassment and impatience will turn people off to tanking, or drive them from the game entirely. Hence, we wind up with fewer people compelled to put in the massive amount of time and effort needed to become proficient at all the content they might face, and a greater number who are taking their first forays into the job, only to get hammered down for not knowing everything from the get-go.

At the same time, I understand where you're coming from. I'm not looking to suggest that tank players can't be and aren't just as likely to be rude and toxic to their DPS and healers (as evidenced by some of the above posts), but that again comes back to this issue of all of us needing to expend less effort on blaming others and instead exercise more restraint, and being more willing to offer advice and support. You are, of course, going to run into people who don't and won't give a damn about any advice offered to them, but my view is that you handle those people on a case-by-case basis after the fact, rather than making assumptions from the get-go.

[Yorumi]

but the fact is that you're rarely given leeway on a tank job to learn a dungeon or a trial fight unless you were there when the content was released and brand new.

The problem is this is entirely confirmation bias. We all tend to view or chosen main as the greatest victim in the world and the hardest job to play too. I've played tank, I've played heal, I've played dps. I've done dungeons on my tank for the first time long after they were current content due to breaks and such. When I'm new I say so, when my gearis a bit behind I say so and say I'm not entirely comfortable with large pulls in that scenario. I've missed boss mechanics that hurt quite a bit due to being new. You know how many times I've had people complain about my tanking? Never, not one time. Difficulty wise I find tank to be the easiest role to play by FAR. All you have to do is gather up mods and spam your threat, for bosses just avoid telegraphs and keep hate on it.

Lets contrast shall we. Healer? I've had tanks pulling way more than they're capable without tank stance on, not using a cooldown, proceeding to die in one gcd and then screaming at me for not being able to heal the impossible. I've had parties made derogatory comments when the tank is taking so much damage all my gcds are spent healer cause I'm also not spamming holy. If a tank misses a mechanic and dies it's my fault, if dps are standing in a cleave it's my fault.

Dps? I had a dungeon where I fat fingered a couple skills. In a self deprecating way I said in party chat "ugh, i don't know what's wrong with me today, I messed up a couple rotations." The response I got was, not joke "oh you're complaining? dps don't get to complain, enjoy the long queue" followed by a kick from dungeon. If you don't have synced or top of the line gear it's "dps sucks, you guys should just quit the game."

I don't know if those experiences are typical, but I can say it makes me have little sympathy for tanks whining about their job and berating everyone else. When someone is posting, unprovoked, an arrogant, insultint, toxic post I don't want to heal about how we all need to come together. No, that person needs to stop being a jerk. To stop making tanks look bad.

[Duelle]

I dunno why you started the dungeon with "you pull it you tank it" comment. It is condescending and they probably wanted to just teach you a lesson for being rude. It's okay to have that philosophy but there is no reason to say it out loud at the beginning when no one has done anything dumb.

The tank sets the pace of the run. Even if they're not comfortable rushing mobs or pulling en masse, going up their ass over it or making them miserable (by not letting them do the role they're there to perform) is not going to make them want to continue tanking nor give them the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the gameplay and other nuances of the role. You lose a potential tank player in exchange for your dungeon run being 2 or 3 minutes shorter.

In the long run, that's a bad deal.

[LalafellDown]

"You pull it you tank it." That's not the tank mentality we tanks live by. A true tank finds pleasure taking Aggro. away from our peasant DPS brothren. We do not cry foul when the adds desire to look upon our fellow party members. Instead we rejoice for the opportunity to remind the adds that their sight should be focused on the glorious specimen that is the tank. Wether it's with an axe, a sword or a great sword.

[Jim_Berry]

As a tank main, I love my job. Enough to the point where I don't care about those who pull. I have to attack/hold the enemy anyway. Some people find it bothersome. It's normal for me. Keep pulling for me, and I'll keep taking it from you. I don't care. If I did care, I wouldn't be a tank.

I'm also a believer that people who pull can generally kill the mob pulled. I appreciate it more when they pull and bring it to me, instead of pulling then running around like headless chickens (please don't pull and kite).

[Jhett_Magnum]

I go by that philosophy and never get kicked. Then again if i get kicked ill just insta queue. Although in your situation sastasha really doesnt need a tank. You aught to lighten up on earlier dungeons because eventually the holy trinity sets in and psuedo wannabe tanks get shut down. Also be reasonable with your pulls too.

[Neophyte]

As a tank main, I love my job. Enough to the point where I don't care about those who pull. I have to attack/hold the enemy anyway. Some people find it bothersome. It's normal for me. Keep pulling for me, and I'll keep taking it from you. I don't care. If I did care, I wouldn't be a tank.

This.

What's next, healer saying 'I don't heal ya, when you stand in avoidable damage" or a dps saying 'I won't attack that' if you pull 'optional' enemies like they exist in some dungeon.

Or a dps not entering the boss arena because tank pulled when the dps were still out of range: "You pull before I set up my opener or have aetherflow ready? You kill it".

[YitharV2]

'I don't heal ya, when you stand in avoidable damage"

Yeah, like, I still heal people when they stand in avoidable AoEs. I just start cursing if they keep doing it.

[aleph_null]

Yeah, like, I still heal people when they stand in avoidable AoEs. I just start cursing if they keep doing it.

Sometimes it's unintentional because of latency or people weren't prepared, and even when it's intentional sometimes they have a good reason (keeping buffs going on, triggering stuffs that require them to get hit like blood price, shield swipe proc, or just that it won't kill them so it's a dps gain by eating the aoe, though in this case it's better to let the healers know beforehands). Personally as a tank I don't think fighting over small matters like dps pulling ahead of me is worth it, unless it's obviously intended for griefing purposes. If you complain over every little thing random pugs do in dungeons you'd lose your sanity rather quickly lol.

[YitharV2]

Sometimes it's unintentional because of latency or people weren't prepared, and even when it's intentional sometimes they have a good reason (keeping buffs going on, triggering stuffs that require them to get hit like blood price, shield swipe proc, or just that it won't kill them so it's a dps gain by eating the aoe, though in this case it's better to let the healers know beforehands). Personally as a tank I don't think fighting over small matters like dps pulling ahead of me is worth it, unless it's obviously intended for griefing purposes. If you complain over every little thing random pugs do in dungeons you'd lose your sanity rather quickly lol.

We have someone in our FC who lives in Japan (and also seems to be somewhat bad at dodging AoEs too from what she said), and I understand that latency can be a problem. That doesn't make it any less frustrating as a healer, since I prefer that only the tank take damage. It screws up what I was planning to do and makes the run take longer since now I have to constantly heal 2 people.

Cursing for me is more of a habit rather than complaining. But you know what they say, people who swear tend to be more honest.