Really afraid SE is going to think things are fine because of the amount of WHM/SCHs

[Kazukiyashuo]

you say that but AST with its 20% balances was much more broken and if it was really that op why not just buff the other healers to its level keeping the fun for SCH players instead of gutting it?

Why to rework 2 jobs so u can keep your op SCH and feel special? Its always better to nerf 1 job than boost 2. SCH is still really fun to play since he kept all the elements that make him fun to play. IF you lost your "fun" cause u need to heal more cause fairy healing isnt sufficient or u cant spam adlos anymore, then yes SCH isnt fun or u should learn to play

[tikiwiki]

Why to rework 2 jobs so u can keep your op SCH and feel special? Its always better to nerf 1 job than boost 2. SCH is still really fun to play since he kept all the elements that make him fun to play. IF you lost your "fun" cause u need to heal more cause fairy healing isnt sufficient or u cant spam adlos anymore, then yes SCH isnt fun or u should learn to play

they didnt need to change ast at all so it would be 1 job actually and when my class is just weaker in every regard to the other two healers and i have to work twice as hard to do the same job that isnt fun and no healer spams spells you all use ogcds to heal which sch has the worst of and all theirs compete for usage the fairy made up for that and if you wanna talk about adlo it costs more than medica aspected benefit costs less than both idc if you thought sch was op this clearly isnt balanced

[Anselmet]

Why to rework 2 jobs so u can keep your op SCH and feel special? Its always better to nerf 1 job than boost 2. SCH is still really fun to play since he kept all the elements that make him fun to play. IF you lost your "fun" cause u need to heal more cause fairy healing isnt sufficient or u cant spam adlos anymore, then yes SCH isnt fun or u should learn to play

It isn't even about us having to heal more. It's the issue that we are out healed by ast and whm and out shielded by YOUR class. And while SCH might have been the op class of HW, that does not mean that SCH was easy to master. Yes, you could have a bad SCH who just used their pet to heal, but it is completely different than a sch who could manage dps, off heal, and manage their fairies. A lot of that came with practice and observing the fights and making sure that their co-healer did not need help. And you ASTs were beginning to outshine SCH shields back in 3.4, so now that you completely outstrip us, I don't think you have room to bitch about us being upset that we can no longer do the role we were BUILT for before AST was even a gleam in Yoshi P's eye. There is something fundamentally wrong with SCH at this moment. My friend who is an AST can heal way more than me at ilvl 280. My ilvl is 305 and yet my skills are drop in the bucket compared to his. Now, I do disagree with those who say that SCH have poor mp regain, but when you compare how we are a shielding class yet our shields cost more than an AST and do less than AST there is a damn problem. It's about being on par healing wise and not be out classed or be the 'dps healer'. Most of us know that concept is dead because the devs wanted to end the healing discourse that was happening in hw. But if it is truly dead, then they need to allow us to heal. My healing rotation is now literally adlo on pull, physick until hp is below 50% lustrate bc excog is a stupid skill that may or may not go off depending on the timer (Also hi, there is an AST skill that also is better and stronger so once again outstripped unfairly by ast), rinse, repeat. Do you know how boring that is not to mention inefficient that is? Do you know how much my physick is at ilvl 305? Around 6k. My lustrate? 10k. My adlo? 5k. In other words, I am barely healing more than I was at ilvl 270 hw sch bc at least my pet could heal for about 1k more and not to mention eos' regen was for a hell a lot more per tick. It's not the matter of its not being fun to play, its a matter of people who love this class who want to see it not be in this state.

[Kazukiyashuo]

It isn't even about us having to heal more. It's the issue that we are out healed by ast and whm and out shielded by YOUR class. And while SCH might have been the op class of HW, that does not mean that SCH was easy to master...

well u said so much non sense that im not even going to reply to all of them. Do u even know what is changed to SCH ? cause i know and u obviously dont . Go and read the patch notes again. Your numbers are tottaly subjective and they dont prove anything at all. Wont comment about AST having stonger shields cause if u would spare a min u could see that they have the same shields. Not to mention the MP that is seems AST shield is a bit more. WE had an op pet at HW and now we dont . Deal with it

[Maltothoris]

Wont comment about AST having stonger shields cause if u would spare a min u could see that they have the same shields. Not to mention the MP that is seems AST shield is a bit more.

Let's compare then

Aldo vs NoctAspBene

Aldo is a 300 pot shield and 300 pot heal which cost 1800 mp with a cast time of 2 seconds.

Noct AspBene is a 230 pot heal with a 575 shield which cost 1440 mp with an instant cast time.

Winner is Noct aspbene for higher overall potency (805>600), less mp (1440v1800) and faster cast time (instant vs 2 s). Only weakness is that it can't be deployed.

Succor vs Noct Aspected Helios

Succor is a 150/150 for a total of 300 with a cast time of 2.5 seconds. Noct Aspected Helios is a 172.5 heal and a 258.75 shield for a total of 431.25 shields with a cast of 3 seconds. Both cost the same mp as I recall.

Succor may be a little faster but Noct Helios is 43 percent stronger so Noct Aspect Helios wins.

[Kazukiyashuo]

Let's compare then

Aldo vs NoctAspBene

Aldo is a 300 pot shield and 300 pot heal which cost 1800 mp with a cast time of 2 seconds.

Noct AspBene is a 230 pot heal with a 575 shield which cost 1440 mp with an instant cast time.

Winner is Noct aspbene for higher overall potency (805>600), less mp (1440v1800) and faster cast time (instant vs 2 s). Only weakness is that it can't be deployed.

Succor vs Noct Aspected Helios

Succor is a 150/150 for a total of 300 with a cast time of 2.5 seconds. Noct Aspected Helios is a 172.5 heal and a 258.75 shield for a total of 431.25 shields with a cast of 3 seconds. Both cost the same mp as....

Well u forgot to mention the biggest difference which is that shields from SCH can do DOUBLE potency if they CRIT and ASTs dont. Also dont count the healing bonus from sect cause SCH has 3 different ways to increase his own healing by a bigger amount and AST has 1 . SO plz do your math correctly

[tikiwiki]

increase its potency with a bad role skill thats much better on ast increase its potency by killing the fairy which means you have so resummon it giving you bigger mana issues so the only viable option is illumination which also benefits all other healers also crits are not consistant so a non crit ast shield being barely weaker than a crit adlo is much stronger than you make it out to be

[Kazukiyashuo]

increase its potency with a bad role skill thats much better on ast increase its potency by killing the fairy which means you have so resummon it giving you bigger

dissipation is perfect skill unless u dont like the free aetherflow stacks. Still SCH has 3 ways to increase 20% healing including the class role skill. This means u can have +20% heal for a lot more time comparing to astro. And plz go try that out before u make a statement. have u ever seen what crit adlo can do in terms of mitigation ? AST would never do that . Its not barely weaker , its a lot weaker , since ASTs shield is the same 24/7 SCH not. Have u also seen the crit rate of the new materias ? plz nough said. SCH still has the strongest mitigation, if he wouldnt have that then noone would be left playing SCH. Thats his utility, the shields. AST is balanced at everything and excels at nothing, thats why his utility is buffs for the party

[tikiwiki]

well u said so much non sense that im not even going to reply to all of them. Do u even know what is changed to SCH ? cause i know and u obviously dont . Go and read the patch notes again. Your numbers are tottaly subjective and they dont prove anything at all. Wont comment about AST having stonger shields cause if u would spare a min u could see that they have the same shields. Not to mention the MP that is seems AST shield is a bit more. WE had an op pet at HW and now we dont . Deal with it

wasnt really op in hw and with the other healrs buffs to hps it definitly wouldnt be op now but now the other healers have better hps and we have the lowest and we also have the highest mana cost

[loreleidiangelo]

wasnt really op in hw and with the other healrs buffs to hps it definitly wouldnt be op now but now the other healers have better hps and we have the lowest and we also have the highest mana cost

SCH was definitely OP in HW; sorry if that sounds indelicate, but it is true. WHM and DiAST were alsways the two competing for raid spots during the entirety of 3.x. That said, I'm never of the belief that balance is a zero-sum game - just because SCH was OP before doesn't mean it "deserves" to be nerfed into uselessness now like some other people seem to think. I think they should have gone with the DoT+Aetherflow nerf or the fairy/mana costs nerf, not all of the above. The devs were definitely a bit heavy-handed with the bat this go-around, IMO.