Really afraid SE is going to think things are fine because of the amount of WHM/SCHs

[Ghishlain]

The only "additional effect" gravity had was that it costs 10% less mp than their holy counterpart.

[edit] Just to clarify my facetious / sarcastic comment above as I'm no longer on my phone ATM - Gravity never had an additional effect - no DoT, no Heavy, nothing. Because of that, Gravity costs approximately 10% less MP than Holy - or to think about conversely, Holy costs approximately 10% more MP than Gravity because of the added effect of Stun.

[Violet_Magenta]

Personnaly, from what I tested / read WHM is as boring as it wae before (and maybe a little weaker)
I see it as the "easy" to play healer that will be used by beginners but my thought is that, as they take experience, they'll just fid it boring and witch on SCH or AST :/

Actually I think white mage is a little more interesting now - granted the lilly mechanic just seems tacked on and I think they could have fleshed it out a lot more.

I have all 3 healers at level 70 and item level 314 and I think white mage is in a really good position right now. From what I have noticed, most white mages do not really understand their tool kit just yet - because ideally as a white mage you want to build up your lillies to ensure your skills are on a shorter cd or use a divine benison on the tank. However, white mages currently don't seem to be using divine benison much nor do they use plenary indulgence - which is effectively a free cure (on tank) [you can even think of it as a lustrate, since it can be cast while moving] every 15s if you have the confession stacks.

I think there is a lot more coherency in the white mage toolkit now and a lot of their skills are very versatile. Thin air can be used with presence of mind to either spam dps skills or heals. Thin air can be used as a free raise when needed. Assize is an aoe heal/dps skill that also restores mp. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if whm/ast would not be the new end game meta with noct ast being main healer (having 15% more healing) - because whm has superior dps capabilities and if whm can manage their cd's with lillies/confessions they will have free cures (tetra/ plenary/assize)/regens every so often to support as off healer. it's a pity that confessions/ lillies dont proc from regen - but if white mage is going to be off heal then I can see this as being OP.

Right now I see whm and ast being able to fulfill both roles of main heal and off heal. Unfortunately, scholar is likely only to be off heal and even then the other jobs can do a better job right now.

Right now the scholar toolkit is very clunky and messy compared to both healers. Can it do content? yes sure. Is it going to be a demanded class for end game raids? Probably not.

[Kazukiyashuo]

I was main scholar before SB , im tired of all the ppl crying all day about anything. If u dont like it move along. SCH was broken before SB . It was the easiest OP healer of the 3. They had to nerf him a bit. Your crying wont help u. When at HW u could let your pet do all the dirty job and u were only DPS was unbalanced since Astro and WHM couldnt do that. Its time for all that scrubs out there to learn to heal and make a good managent of their mp. Welcome to WHM AST life pre SB. Deal with it or reroll. + on reducing potency of fairy + on increasing mp of shields. Good job SE

[Yallaid]

Things are fine and people over-reacted / are over-reacting like always.

Are there some balancing issues? Yes. Could a few skills be tweaked to really increase their functionality? Of course.
Is the game or job broken because you can't Aero/Bio anymore? No. It isn't.

We can say the job is more boring - which is a personal opinion - but the goal was to streamline certain things and streamline often means simplify and simplifying a job that was perhaps more complex can make it feel sluggish and boring, but will it still be able to hold its own in a raid? Probably.

I really, really wish people would stop judging jobs when we don't even have access to the content the changes were built for - or the content built to handle these changes, I guess. I was kind of devastated by the changes to Scholar at first - on paper - and it irritates me to no end that my White Mage can practically solo heal and out DPS me when I'm doing DPS 90% of the time - something that would have been ridiculously hard for them to do a few weeks ago. But aside from having to adjust my notion of "what it means to be a Scholar" the job handles just fine and even things I thought were stupid - like Excog and Fey Union - I'm finding creative uses for in certain situations.

Things are different. That's all. And yes, some things need tweaking. I won't argue that. But White Mage and Scholar are going to pull through this. I promise.
They are both working just fine.

You just admitted that 'some things need tweaking' which for WHM I take to refer to the lily system (the effect is not nearly powerful enough to make it worth adjusting your playstyle around) and to Plenary Indulgence (which seems overtuned and overcomplicated for what it actually does). That means Lillies and PI are not working right now and so things aren't really just fine.

Things are OK maybe, but that's not nearly enough that we should be running around telling people "it's just smoke, there's no fire". If we don't make it clear that beyond the numerical effects of our skills, the overall kit needs to also make sense and be functional -- then i think there is a real risk that SE looks at the player numbers and reads posts like yours and concludes that they don't need to spend any more resources working on healers.

they absolutely do.

[tikiwiki]

I was main scholar before SB , im tired of all the ppl crying all day about anything. If u dont like it move along. SCH was broken before SB . It was the easiest OP healer of the 3. They had to nerf him a bit. Your crying wont help u. When at HW u could let your pet do all the dirty job and u were only DPS was unbalanced since Astro and WHM couldnt do that. Its time for all that scrubs out there to learn to heal and make a good managent of their mp. Welcome to WHM AST life pre SB. Deal with it or reroll. + on reducing potency of fairy + on increasing mp of shields. Good job SE

you say that but AST with its 20% balances was much more broken and if it was really that op why not just buff the other healers to its level keeping the fun for SCH players instead of gutting it?

[Kazukiyashuo]

you say that but AST with its 20% balances was much more broken and if it was really that op why not just buff the other healers to its level keeping the fun for SCH players instead of gutting it?

Why to rework 2 jobs so u can keep your op SCH and feel special? Its always better to nerf 1 job than boost 2. SCH is still really fun to play since he kept all the elements that make him fun to play. IF you lost your "fun" cause u need to heal more cause fairy healing isnt sufficient or u cant spam adlos anymore, then yes SCH isnt fun or u should learn to play

[tikiwiki]

Why to rework 2 jobs so u can keep your op SCH and feel special? Its always better to nerf 1 job than boost 2. SCH is still really fun to play since he kept all the elements that make him fun to play. IF you lost your "fun" cause u need to heal more cause fairy healing isnt sufficient or u cant spam adlos anymore, then yes SCH isnt fun or u should learn to play

they didnt need to change ast at all so it would be 1 job actually and when my class is just weaker in every regard to the other two healers and i have to work twice as hard to do the same job that isnt fun and no healer spams spells you all use ogcds to heal which sch has the worst of and all theirs compete for usage the fairy made up for that and if you wanna talk about adlo it costs more than medica aspected benefit costs less than both idc if you thought sch was op this clearly isnt balanced

[Anselmet]

Why to rework 2 jobs so u can keep your op SCH and feel special? Its always better to nerf 1 job than boost 2. SCH is still really fun to play since he kept all the elements that make him fun to play. IF you lost your "fun" cause u need to heal more cause fairy healing isnt sufficient or u cant spam adlos anymore, then yes SCH isnt fun or u should learn to play

It isn't even about us having to heal more. It's the issue that we are out healed by ast and whm and out shielded by YOUR class. And while SCH might have been the op class of HW, that does not mean that SCH was easy to master. Yes, you could have a bad SCH who just used their pet to heal, but it is completely different than a sch who could manage dps, off heal, and manage their fairies. A lot of that came with practice and observing the fights and making sure that their co-healer did not need help. And you ASTs were beginning to outshine SCH shields back in 3.4, so now that you completely outstrip us, I don't think you have room to bitch about us being upset that we can no longer do the role we were BUILT for before AST was even a gleam in Yoshi P's eye. There is something fundamentally wrong with SCH at this moment. My friend who is an AST can heal way more than me at ilvl 280. My ilvl is 305 and yet my skills are drop in the bucket compared to his. Now, I do disagree with those who say that SCH have poor mp regain, but when you compare how we are a shielding class yet our shields cost more than an AST and do less than AST there is a damn problem. It's about being on par healing wise and not be out classed or be the 'dps healer'. Most of us know that concept is dead because the devs wanted to end the healing discourse that was happening in hw. But if it is truly dead, then they need to allow us to heal. My healing rotation is now literally adlo on pull, physick until hp is below 50% lustrate bc excog is a stupid skill that may or may not go off depending on the timer (Also hi, there is an AST skill that also is better and stronger so once again outstripped unfairly by ast), rinse, repeat. Do you know how boring that is not to mention inefficient that is? Do you know how much my physick is at ilvl 305? Around 6k. My lustrate? 10k. My adlo? 5k. In other words, I am barely healing more than I was at ilvl 270 hw sch bc at least my pet could heal for about 1k more and not to mention eos' regen was for a hell a lot more per tick. It's not the matter of its not being fun to play, its a matter of people who love this class who want to see it not be in this state.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

I feel like something needs to change... Problem is, I see a lot of good points in this thread, so who do you believe? SCH was OP at one point. It's a fact, but has it actually been as nerfed as people claim, or does it just feel like it because they were used to being the top dog in meta? I dunno, I use it casually only when my FC needs me. AST seems overtuned in the extreme, because it's drawing a lot of healers to it. WHM actually seems like it's still good, just very underwhelming. I've been leveling WHM myself because I was curious about the new mechanics (.... also because I'm a bad SCH.... XD;; ).

I will say something though. The last 5 trials I've had, it's been double ASTs. I watched an FC mate/irl friend do the last trial in Stormblood with 2 ASTs, 2 PLDs, 2 RDMs, a SAM and a DRG (... guess which one was dead all the time....). The PLDs and RDMs had to pick up the healing slack because the ASTs didn't have the straight up healing hammer that WHM has (still has, yes), nor are they used to coordinating shields the way that most SCH mains can. So... I guess what I'm trying to say is, I understand completely the reason people hate their class right now, but the rest of us still appreciate what they can do and actually quite miss seeing them in our parties.

Sorry, I dunno if this feels relevant to anyone here, but it makes me sad seeing so many people that broken up over what was done to their Job. I firmly believe that this will be fixed. \o/ Maybe not immediately, but it's gonna happen.

Edit: It just feels like 80% of the ASTs I end up with are former SCH or WHM mains that jumped ship in a panic and aren't actually good at AST. :P

[Kazukiyashuo]

It isn't even about us having to heal more. It's the issue that we are out healed by ast and whm and out shielded by YOUR class. And while SCH might have been the op class of HW, that does not mean that SCH was easy to master...

well u said so much non sense that im not even going to reply to all of them. Do u even know what is changed to SCH ? cause i know and u obviously dont . Go and read the patch notes again. Your numbers are tottaly subjective and they dont prove anything at all. Wont comment about AST having stonger shields cause if u would spare a min u could see that they have the same shields. Not to mention the MP that is seems AST shield is a bit more. WE had an op pet at HW and now we dont . Deal with it