Reason tank DPS stat was changed to STR

[Jonnycbad]

The new weakness penalty imposed by dying is -25%/-50% to STR/DEX/MND/INT. This limits damage dealt and HP healed, while keeping HP and MP values intact (previously was a 30% penalty to both, which made surviving mechanics after raising from a death, exceedingly hard). Since the new changes, tanks' damage is calculated with STR in mind, so that when tanks die, they incur the same damage penalty as DPS jobs do.

If damage stat was changed back to VIT, then when tanks get raised they would suffer virtually no penalty; e.g. their HP won't be affected (since that's been abolished), and since weakness doesn't affect VIT, their damage won't be affected. Making it a .45/.45 split still means tanks would only suffer half the penalty as other roles.

If they wanted to change this, they could instead of making Weakness affect main attributes, simply make it a 2 minute status that directly lowers damage dealt and healing potency down by 25%/50%, since there are already "Damage Down" and "Healing Potency Down" debuffs.

[ed3891]

Yeah. We figured this one out already.

We also know it's entirely possible to change the nature of the death penalty debuffs to a flat damage/healing potency reduction without gimping tanks, and that -that's- the solution they need to take, while returning us to VIT/STR scaling.

[Chiraisu]

This is a poor explanation. All SE could have done is a flat damage reduction instead of reducing the effective attribute state, which they should have in the first place.

The real reason dmg is no longer affected by vit is because SE desired to make the game harder, and it's been a long standing fact that DPS helps tanks maintain aggro. The result of this is, no one really needing to take care of their own enmity, and therefor tanks like warriors were running entire dungeons in DPS stance. They wanted them to use the class as intended.

[AniCelestine]

And I'm personally fine with the change as I too realised this. But what I'm not fine with is that they lock us out of str accessories for 4.0 equipment but don't bother to change the 3.0 items so that they're locked to dps classes too. Or if they didn't intend to nerf our dmg via locking us out then why won't they just give us str+vit accessories.

[Jonnycbad]

But 3.0 content was balanced around the idea of allowing jobs meld whatever.

Also how does it work if they change what jobs can equip something, if those jobs are actually wearing it now? Like when they log on will they find it de-equipped? Or will they be equipped with it when they log on but unable to re-equip it after? Not sure if changing the job restriction automatically de-equips things if they're already wearing it.

[ed3891]

But 3.0 content was balanced around the idea of allowing jobs meld whatever.

Also how does it work if they change what jobs can equip something, if those jobs are actually wearing it now? Like when they log on will they find it de-equipped? Or will they be equipped with it when they log on but unable to re-equip it after? Not sure if changing the job restriction automatically de-equips things if they're already wearing it.

End-game HW accessories at i270 aren't job-locked - the attack power gains from using those accessories far outweigh the attack power gains from STR-melded level 70 VIT accessories. That's why the older gear is being used; SB accessories from level 60 to 70 are job-locked, so there's no risk of logging in and finding gear unequipped.

People seem to forget that VIT/STR scaling was a nerf to STR tank DPS output. We've been brought full circle to an old problem that'd been taken care, together with the added problem of tank damage scaling (and therefore aggro generation) being outclassed by dedicated DPS gains on damage as gear progresses from here through the upcoming patch cycles.

[Jonnycbad]

End-game HW accessories at i270 aren't job-locked - the attack power gains from using those accessories far outweigh the attack power gains from STR-melded level 70 VIT accessories. That's why the older gear is being used; SB accessories from level 60 to 70 are job-locked, so there's no risk of logging in and finding gear unequipped.

People seem to forget that VIT/STR scaling was a nerf to STR tank DPS output. We've been brought full circle to an old problem that'd been taken care, together with the added problem of tank damage scaling (and therefore aggro generation) being outclassed by dedicated DPS gains on damage as gear progresses from here through the upcoming patch cycles.

I think you and other tanks are not seeing the whole picture. If raiding under the previous raid and expansion mentality, yes; DPS will outclass tanks in damage:enmity scaling. However, people are sadly seeing SB raiding with the same lens and strategy as ARR and HW raiding: that DPS (except for BLM/SMN/BRD) can mostly get by without using enmity shedding skills like Quelling Strikes, or in this case: Diversion). For SB, it seems like SE wants DPS to manage their own enmity with Diversion. Hell in DRG's 70 Job Class Quest, you literally cannot win unless you use Elusive Jump (or Diversion) to give enmity back to Estinien. The dragon hits you with a massive vuln up, basically telling you "hey watch your enmity, buddy". Sadly, 99% of DPS I have rolled with so far refuse to use Diversion because they don't think it's useful (most DPS aren't setting Goad either, even as I deplete all my TP on Total Eclipse). It's a mentality of not wanting to change or adapt playstyles. There's nothing wrong with enmity, if DPS use Diversion. Hell, NIN can use Smokescreen/Shadewalker to help too if they're in the group. Problem is, DPS want to tunnel vision their deeps and if they gain hate, it's the tanks fault. SE is trying to have a shift responsibility of enmity from being a tank-centric management to now also being a thing DPS need to manage. DPS need to be more wary of enmity and none of this 'set it and forget it' mentality that we're used from ARR and HW.

[HELLruler]

SE is trying to have a shift responsibility of enmity from being a tank-centric management to now also being a thing DPS need to manage. DPS need to be more wary of enmity and none of this 'set it and forget it' mentality that we're used from ARR and HW.

This is the correct answer! But there's a problem: DPS classes are totally out of tune. Some classes, especially the new ones, generate way too much aggro even with Diversion because they are OP. It's surprising how fast SAM can build aggro while all the other DPS are so far behind

[Kyt]

I think you and other tanks are not seeing the whole picture. If raiding under the previous raid and expansion mentality, yes; DPS will outclass tanks in damage:enmity scaling.

Enmity is nothing right now with shirk. If me and my static offtank (even in full VIT gear) are voke-shirking each other, no one is going to catch up to us. Not even the highest dps melee you can find who isn't using enmity reduction. Can dps use enmity reduction? Sure. Will it be worthwhile? Probably not in Savage. As it stands (and I am using str accessories currently because neither EX primal needs more than 38k hp right now anyway) I literally never lose threat on anything, and I gain a solid 700 dps. Win win for me.

[Nuclearducky]

... Problem is, DPS want to tunnel vision their deeps and if they gain hate, it's the tanks fault. SE is trying to have a shift responsibility of enmity from being a tank-centric management to now also being a thing DPS need to manage.

Interestingly enough, I use to play a tank in WoW and the general consensus there that it was on the DPS to watch their threat generations, like using a huge burst opener that caused them to get aggro would 9/10 be their fault for either not using a threat reduction ability, or waiting a few moments before using their large opener.