Let me do my job please...

[RecklessLion]

Normally I wait but when its happening frequently well I just let the dps die. If healer wants to stress themselves healing the over arrogant dps so be it. If we wipe so be it. If I get kick from party so be it. If dps gets kicked from party so be it. If we survive and make it out struggling or not again so be it. Its a team game and at a certain point people should know how to play together as a group instead of trying to be elitist doing what ever.

[Mnemosynia]

That power trip huh.

When was the last time you saw a ninja smoke bomb a healer?
Or A manasong?
Maybe a lethargy on something?
How about a quelling strikes?
When was the last time you saw a virus before a tank bust and not randomly tacked on?
Or a black mage using apoth?
Or a SMN use EFE?
I bet its rarely are only within your FC.

When was the last time you saw a dps 100% of there job, and the OP isn't even complaining about the fact that most the dps in the game can't be bothered with helping the healer or the tank do there job THEY JUST GOTTA GET THEM NUMBERS. Tank request you not go ahead instead of requesting that DPS do there actual job and he's on a power trip.

Oh spare me

When dps learns to do there full job on a regular basis maybe then they will get to have an opinion on how I choose to tank or the OP until you guys should get of that power trip and actual do something other then faceroll on keyboards.

[Falar]

Or how about the last time I saw a NIN use shadwalker in a dungeon?

Answer, never.

[Hayward]

I knew going in that common courtesy was an alien concept among some people in MMOs but a few of these responses take the cake. If I'm tanking, the parses of any DPS is a DISTANT 2nd, if not 3rd, on my priority list. Priority #1 is keeping the attention of enemies I have looking at me. If I want to get more, I'LL get them. Do not make this decision for me, as I may let you have what you brought. Efficiency is a bogus excuse for harassing tanks this way and should not be suffered kindly.

[Yorumi]

When dps learns to do there full job on a regular basis maybe then they will get to have an opinion on how I choose to tank or the OP until you guys should get of that power trip and actual do something other then faceroll on keyboards.

And here is a perfect example of a rude, obnoxious, tank who gives all tanks a bad name. Arrogant power trip. It's sad how often you have to put up with this stuff after nearly an hour queue. What's worse though is it's just more contribution to making the community worse.

[ed3891]

Except that expecting the people on other roles within instanced content to do their jobs and perform well is neither arrogant nor rude. Placing the onus for a successful dungeon run entirely on a tank player's shoulders, I would argue, is what contributes to a frayed community. We cannot continue to go along laying blame at the feet of the smallest proportion of players who, as with the healer roles, have taken a very difficult task upon their shoulders.

I expect people on DPS jobs to watch their aggro. I expect them to use their support abilities. I expect them to move at whatever pace tanks set, within reason. I expect them to put forth a team effort rather than focusing on how high they can get their numbers, at the expense of the other three, seven, or twenty-three people in a group.

One of the best things about FFXIV (at least until the SB launch) were the prerequisite class requirements and cross-class actions. There was a mandate with the former, and an incentive with the latter, to play a job outside your preferred role. I feel this conferred a better understanding of what people on the other roles are attempting to accomplish in a particular piece of content, when one had a reason to go and play on other roles for the sake of unlocking soul stones and opening up additional actions. We talk about SMN/SCH applying Virus at a whim pre-4.0, or not using E4E at appropriate times; we talk about melee DPS jobs not paying attention to what mob they're targeting versus what mobs the tank may have marked, or may presently be targeting. If we're going to talk about positive community experience, then we absolutely need to get away from the idea that sole responsibility can or should be laid at the feet of any single role.

I used to slum it up in HW dungeon and alliance raid content on SMN; cleared A9S-A11S on it until my static forced me back onto WAR main for A12S. Having done all that content on a caster job, then doing it on a tank, then flipping back gave me the perspective I needed to understand what I could and should be doing to speed things along and contribute to the party's success without running roughshod over anyone else for my own sake. Yes, I should absolutely hold Virus until I see the "Deadly Thrust" cast bar; yes, I should absolutely toss E4E on the tank after he's pulled and established hate on one group and is moving to pull and establish hate on the next big pack of mobs. Did I accidentally pull hate on one or two mobs with my AoE burst? Hold on, let me pop Sprint and run myself into the tank's face so they can easily get aggro pack with Flash, Unleash, Overpower, etc.

Granted, we have to learn new ways of contributing in SB with all the changes to our toolkits, but in no way, shape, or form should any of us, regardless of what job we prefer to play, operate from a position that responsibility in instanced content is entirely the province of someone else (anyone else!) but ourselves.

[Tihm81]

As a tank returning to the game after a decent hiatus, I re-rolled a tank to "get my feet wet" and get acclimated to the basics again. The DPS in all 3 dungeons I've done so far, pulled aggro all the time. In one, I had DPS pulling out in front to pull quite a lot. I felt the same way as the OP initially, but soon came to the fact that it all helps me do my job better. IMO, my job is to hold aggro and secondly do as much DPS as possible. It's good practice for snapping off Provoke ASAP or establishing aggro as quickly as possible on as many mobs as possible.

My two cents...

[Yorumi]

Except that expecting the people on other roles within instanced content to do their jobs and perform well is neither arrogant nor rude. Placing the onus for a successful dungeon run entirely on a tank player's shoulders, I would argue, is what contributes to a frayed community. We cannot continue to go along laying blame at the feet of the smallest proportion of players who, as with the healer roles, have taken a very difficult task upon their shoulders.

No it arrogant and rude to treat dps players like she does. It's toxic, insulting, and makes the game a worse place to be. At best it's anecdotal evidence at worst it's lies and exaggeration. For every dps player you can find not performing well I could find a dozen tanks that don't know their arm from a stick in the ground. They don't know how their skills work, don't tab target, don't recover enmity when lost, lose enmity to scatter spam(a 100 potency skill), don't position mobs properly, and pull with provoke. It is disturbingly rare to find a good tank in this game. Do you know how annoying, frustrating, and not fun it is to get off work at the end of the day sit in a queue for nearly and hour only to get an absolute jerk of a tank like the above poster? And what's worse most of the time the jerks arn't even good tanks.

It gets old seeing someone like that who has barely ever even played a dps with a vendetta on the forums against everyone else spreading toxic sludge into the community, and that said toxic sludge being defended by people like you. Tell me which you think is worse, a tank who has to hit provoke or an extra flash cause a dps pulled, or a person who makes post after post insult vast members of the community, painting with a broad brush, and spreading toxic sludge in the community?

[Chronons]

When dps learns to do there full job on a regular basis maybe then they will get to have an opinion on how I choose to tank or the OP until you guys should get of that power trip and actual do something other then faceroll on keyboards.

What a ignorant comment. How often do you see tanks swap out of tank stance when applicable? How often do you have tanks consider dps positional requirements when moving mobs? How about efficient defensive cooldown staggering? Do you track your dps' rotation to know when they are going to burst and change to your emnity combo to compensate? PLEASE, dont act like dps players aren't just as good at their jobs as most tanks are at theirs. If playing the "full job" is the standard by which your barring opinions, MOST tanks and dps will fall short.

Your job as a tank is not to hold aggro 100%. You are not that important, get over it. Your job is to hold enough aggro to ensure that no one dies. If a dps pulls one target and looks like they can handle it, let em have it - especially if your going to have to ruin positioning or risk losing the rest of the mobs. If its more than they can handle or there is raid damage coming up, take it back. That doesn't make you a bad tank. Your job is to work with the healer to keep everyone alive and do dps, not have your ego bruised every time something is not hitting you.

[Tihm81]

Your job as a tank is not to hold aggro 100%. You are not that important, get over it. Your job is to hold enough aggro to ensure that no one dies. If a dps pulls one target and looks like they can handle it, let em have it - especially if your going to have to ruin positioning or risk losing the rest of the mobs. If its more than they can handle or there is raid damage coming up, take it back. That doesn't make you a bad tank. Your job is to work with the healer to keep everyone alive and do dps, not have your ego bruised every time something is not hitting you.

Very good point. It's easy to get caught up in the job of "holding aggro 100%," and forget that the point is to kill the mobs and not have players die. On a side note, the real point is this is a game and you should be having fun. If you hate DPS pulling or grabbing aggro and you can't get over it, you probably shouldn't be a tank. Play a job that you enjoy or a different game...