Would you be against or for rewarding good performance in parties?

[Katsuragi_]

Wouldn't work. Too many variables and often enough some of them out of your control. If not abusable, even if just in the griefing sense. It is really that simple. At least as far as individual performance goes.

[Katryn]

It would be interesting if after clearing dungeons there were optional quests you could take that would unlock various challenges that you could go in with a group and undertake. Depending on design, you could get a bonus for clearing a time trial or for meeting an additional dps / healing check, for completing some tank related mechanic / challenge, etc. Even for exploration, every chest, etc. depending on the layout and focus of the place.

I think the challenges that bring everyone together and make people think of the best way to resolve them are better than things that reward or punish an individual within the context of group content.

[F_Maximillian]

Tanks- +: Amount of hits taken under the effect of defensive cooldowns, damage dealt, % of total combat time spent maintaining aggro. -: hits taken outside effects of defensive cooldowns (with consideration of cd time), failing to reach damage threshold on bosses and each set of mob packs, % of total combat time mobs spend attacking a dps/healer as their primary aggro target.

DPS- +: Amount of damage done, amount of support skills used (aggro management etc; ) during combat, number of attacks hitting more than two targets. -: failing to reach damage thresholds, damage taken by avoidable aoes and cleaves, % time spent not attacking in relation to total combat time, failing to reach support skill threshold.

Healers- +: Amount of damage done, amount of healing done, amount of support skills used during combat, number of attacks hitting more than two targets. -: failing to reach damage thresholds, damage taken by avoidable aoes, % of overheal past 30%, failing to reach support skill threshold, % of time spent idle in relation to total combat time.

You would have a total score from each category combined and the +s would add to it, the -s detract from it. Not sure if this would be feaseable for SE to do but it would promote decent gameplay without excluding many people. For example if healers aren't as comfortable dpsing they might gain more of their points from necessary healing done and support skills used.

[Kleeya]

And for the DPS standing in fire arguments: deduct points for standing in fire. Done.

But what if the aoe doesn't hit that hard, and that i know i can survive it and be healed right away ? Isn't that playing bad to avoid it, stopping your cast time or going too far away for a melee dps, thus making your dps go down and the run longer ? At which point should we set the requirement to know if an aoe must be avoided or not ?

[Sylvina]

People are already rewarded for good performance with faster and easier runs.

[Lynart]

People are already rewarded for good performance with faster and easier runs.

If an entire group of players perform well, the entire group is rewarded. You're completely right. And we're not talking about that at all, good observation Sherlock

That's twice now you've misunderstood the point.

[Ayrie]

People are already rewarded for good performance with faster and easier runs.

Good players are also rewarded with slow, agonizing runs when someone plops in with the "You don't pay my sub" mentality.

Not arguing that it is right, just arguing the obvious hole in your statement.

I think there should be more difficult gates that people have to hurdle. If you want the standard at one measurement, you don't set it well below there and hope people self-motivate to reach it. I think that is largely the problem... lazy players get a pass because, well, you don't really need them. What do you think that tells them? Do you think making content easier will make them any more likely to press buttons in a logical, meaningful way? Nah, it'll just encourage more people to perform at a lower standard because it is now permissible.

[Lynart]

I think there should be more difficult gates that people have to hurdle. If you want the standard at one measurement, you don't set it well below there and hope people self-motivate to reach it. I think that is largely the problem... lazy players get a pass because, well, you don't really need them. What do you think that tells them? Do you think making content easier will make them any more likely to press buttons in a logical, meaningful way? Nah, it'll just encourage more people to perform at a lower standard because it is now permissible.

Despite being an overachiever myself, I completely understand why modern MMORPGs go for the lowest common denominator.

Back in the Final Fantasy XI days, MMORPGs had a really high bar for progression, even leveling. If you died, you'd lose 10% of your exp. DPS would literally wait 2-6 hours for a party. Travelling from the party creation to leveling camps could take anywhere from 5-30 minutes. Nobody wanted to fail because if they did, they'd effectively waste a few hours. These "mechanics" greatly lowered the # of bad players because bad players simply wouldn't play or end up with such a bad reputation no one wanted them in their parties.

The downside of the above is that MMORPGs catered to a very small crowd due to the amount of time required for progression. I was in high school at the time. If someone released an old school RPG now, I would not play it, and we know, for certain, many others would not. World of Warcraft revolutionized the MMORPG genre by greatly lowering the bar for entry. However, as you've stated, by lowering the bar, the quality of players also dropped tremendously due to the increased quantity.

Lets all be honest here, it's far easier to be carried than it is to carry.

It would be financial suicide for Square-Enix or any MMORPG publisher to raise the bar for progression. With that said, I'm certain there are a noticeable amount of either old school players or natural over achievers that would greatly benefit from the proposed system.

[Claymore65]

The main problem with this is how dependent we are on the other member's of the party.

A role's performance is almost entirely dependent on the rest of the team. For example, if the DPS refuse to use aggro management tools, the Tank's performance (in terms of DPS) is going to suffer tremendously as they're forced to rely on their aggro combo and tank stance. Or if the Tank had an exceptionally poor healer, they might die several times even if their own skills are excellent. The tank's performance is highly dependent on their teammates.

This is true for the other roles as well. If the DPS are excellent at dodging AOEs and the Tank is skilled with his cooldowns, the Healer will have far less to heal, possibly hurting his "performance" if you rate them by amount healed. A terrible tank/healer will cause the DPS players to die often, thus lowering their performance. In a game as heavily focused on teamwork as this one, tying "performance" to rewards is going to be very difficult.

[Ayrie]

The main problem with this is how dependent we are on the other member's of the party.

A role's performance is almost entirely dependent on the rest of the team. For example, if the DPS refuse to use aggro management tools, the Tank's performance (in terms of DPS) is going to suffer tremendously as they're forced to rely on their aggro combo and tank stance. Or if the Tank had an exceptionally poor healer, they might die several times even if their own skills are excellent. The tank's performance is highly dependent on their teammates.

<snipped>

Teamwork! Working as intended?

I find it a creative solution to the problem of encouraging people to do stuff other than bapping keys on their keyboard while looking at cat memes on reddit.