What is this new anti dps healer attitude?

[Averax]

After hitting 70 on warrior I can easily say there's a lot of room for healers to DPS during things still.
Not sure why people think Stormblood changed something.

A large amount of tanks i've had drop like a brick when i neglect them for even a moment, even if it's to heal someone else. I don't know if it's because they're not managing CDs properly, or aren't stacking the right stats. But from what i can tell, Vit no longer increases tank damage, and we're back to tanks like like to stack STR to max out their damage.

I've had few tanks that actually can soak up damage, and they're nice, but i don't get them often.

[Ferrasper]

A large amount of tanks i've had drop like a brick when i neglect them for even a moment, even if it's to heal someone else. I don't know if it's because they're not managing CDs properly, or aren't stacking the right stats. But from what i can tell, Vit no longer increases tank damage, and we're back to tanks like like to stack STR to max out their damage.

I've had few tanks that actually can soak up damage, and they're nice, but i don't get them often.

I have heard from tanks that Vit no long does do that. STR is their main agro stat now.

[Inuk9]

If you can keep people alive. Fine.

But if you are overhelming the other healer or gets OOM. No one will apreciate it.

[HyoMinPark]

doing content at a lower item level does that. Still, it true, I've had healer just heal in HW content, never bothered me and we won regardless. If you lost or had issues, it a team issue.

Oscura's statement is correct, though. Gordias Savage was way overtuned for the relevant MAX ilvl back when it was released, and A3S in particular did require healers to DPS to meet DPS checks. The developers later admitted that Gordias Savage had not be tuned/tested properly enough.


As for those saying they can't find time to DPS at the current endgame ilvl, I think the issue there lies more so with your tank not properly managing their cooldowns, not properly managing their gear, or just thinking they still outgear the content by several dozen ilvls and don't need to care about either. I've done plenty of 70 dungeon runs where the healers DPS just fine with a tank that knows how to properly manage everything. I'm sure I won't have any problems when my AST hits 70 if I'm paired with a good tank as well.

[Sereph6]

What's your problem with healer dps? I really don't get it.

As long as you don't die, what do you care what the healer is doing? On top of that, more DPS = faster clears.

[Faliandra]

I'm curious to what AST your playing because I main it too and I come from dps'n majority of the time in HW content to always coasting the out of mana line or out of mana line....as much Ewers, enhanced ewers, or timing lucid dream I do if I go dps and do a couple gravitys on a big pull I'm most likely out close to running out or just plain out of mana....lucid dream has a longer cd then our old refresh which made this issue non existent but now fully geared in an expert roulette, a WAR chain pulls he's going to be taking heavy dmg even if using mitigation, there is no room to dps or either you use all your mana keeping him up...I just don't see how and I'm used to dps'n in savage and everything

Lucid dreaming and celestial opposition have the same CD. You pair those two together and you won't run out. If you run out of mana gravity'ing and the mobs aren't dead yet, your party's DPS must really suck.

this. tbh I dont always pair celestial and lucid simply because I mainly keep celestial to extend balances OR because I need a stun. But I do sometimes extend lucid with it too.
What actually happens to me a lot more is that I get a Spear card from Sleeve Draw etc and use it on me and Lucid right afterwards which means it will have a reduced recast timer.

I actually really play a lot of cards but I wont shy away from using a single ewer on me whenever it comes in handy either.
Then there's Lightspeed which reduces your MP costs by 25%.

As I have said in this thread multiple times, I dont shy away from using CDs. I throw them around like candy.

What I basically generally do is play AST in Diurnal. Tank pulls (ironically, my premade has a warrior tank which you say is so squishy,but hes fine)...and once he stops I place my Earthly star at a central spot.
I use Largesse and cast Aspected Helios as well as Aspected Benefic on to the tank. If its an especially big pull, I pop Collective Unconcious as well.
If I have a single Bole, the tank gets it. This is where I start casting quite a few gravities and heal up with benefic II inbetween as needed.
I'll typically not touch my earthly star before 10 seconds are up, because I want the stronger Giant Dominance. So I'll try to use it when the tank needs healing and theres still
enough mobs around to get the damage from it as well. That's a strong instant back up heal right there that I can use to keep dpsing rather than casting a heal spell.
You can also follow that heal up with a Lady of Crowns if you have one. And you should always have a Minor Arcana saved anyway.
If I need 2-3 seconds to "breathe", I use Celestial for its stun. If theres Lucid or anything else nice to pair it up with, I'll do that.


If my tank is in a critical situation and my regens have run out already, I can use Essential Dignity and/or Lightspeed if needed to heal up and reapply regens if needed.
Heck I can even spam gravity if I have some seconds of Lightspeed left after that.

Then theres situational stuff like cards. I typically also buff a spread balance to the party if I have a second balance at hand (happens a lot...so yeah, I play cards all the time.
Not only during boss fights.)
or use 2 single balances on each DPS (if theyre good...if not, I might just use one on me for when I spam gravity because that will do more than a DPS whos not AoEing or busy netflixing)
Basically,whatever helps killing the packs faster. My war tank usually gets a lot of spontanious spires and boles on the way. I suggest using Sleeve Draw a lot.

I blow pretty much all of my cooldowns to get the tank healed nicely, spam Gravity, use Earthly star/minor arcana/Celestial to create some more room for me to dps
and after that, most of the adds should be dead. At least half of my cds will also be back soon enough for the next pull.


Dont know, tbh I never even really played AST in dungeons because I think WHM is much better for this, but I kinda main AST for ex and savage fights.
So when Stormblood came out, I lvled my AST first and didnt really know whats the best way to play them in dungeons.

Maybe my way is garbage and theres some better ways, but all I can say is that it worked for me. MP was mainly a problem in the beginning,but a lot of lvling and lvl 70 gear have tons of piety loaded on them,so
the MP situation also eases up a bit as you lvl.


I find AST quite situational so I may have forgotten to mention 2-3 things, but this will hopefully give you an idea what I do.
And I've done that since Stormblood Day 1 even while I was in lvling dungeons.

[HyoMinPark]

What's your problem with healer dps? I really don't get it.

As long as you don't die, what do you care what the healer is doing? On top of that, more DPS = faster clears.

Was this is response to me? O.o Or the OP? Because neither of us have issues with healers DPSing. Both of us DPS as healers ourselves.

[PharisHanasaki]

Oh so I'm fine then? I feel I can't dps as much as before because tanks are squishy and dps can't take down shit as fast as before. And since I can't choose between using Malefic I instead of Malefic II when my mana pool is below half I simply stop all dps :P

[Keridwyn]

Oh so I'm fine then? I feel I can't dps as much as before because tanks are squishy and dps can't take down shit as fast as before. And since I can't choose between using Malefic I instead of Malefic II when my mana pool is below half I simply stop all dps :P

You're right about not being able to DPS as much, we no longer outgear the content by wide margin anymore so everyone is having to pay just a wee bit more attention these days. It's also smart to set yourself limits, nobody in this thread is advocating for people to DPS irresponsibly. It's just a discussion between folks who think any healer dps is irresponsible and those of us who know we are capable of managing our resources properly.

[vio_p]

And thats when I suddenly get to hear a lot of stuff like "healers heal" and "your dps time is over since stormblood released"....... Umm what? They just removed cleric stance, why would my dps time be over?

thats the time when you let your evil side take over and let that person die on purpose :P

I have no problems with healers dps'n, if we wipe we wipe its a learning curve to understand which trials / raids its possible and which to try to do it but have your main focus on healing.