4.0 MCH is Weak

[jk315904]

When MCH was first released, I was so excited, I had been looking forward to a gun class since Musketeer was announced in 1.0. So when MCH came out I leveled it to 60 asap. I hated it lol.

So when SE said that they were revamping the classes, I got that burning excitement again that the class I wanted to play for so long would become something I would like, but as much as I want to love MCH it still feels like a job that I just cannot grasp.

Currently in party play I feel like I cant keep my eyes off the heat meter for fear that I am going to overheat and screw myself and my party. I find myself frustrated and flustered trying to micro manage heat, my turret, and wildfire.

I want this job to be fun and relaxing to play, I do not want to feel like I am letting everyone down around me because I hit an un-ammoed Slug Shot, and sent myself into Overheat because I took my eyes off the job gauge to move out of AOE.

[Gun-Cat]

One thing that would help a lot with making this feel a lot more fluid:
-make Cooldown an ogcd skill
-why doesn't my Gauss Barrel equip itsself automatically after cooling down? There is not a single scenario I could think of why I wouldn't want it equipped
-make the "turret in repair" debuff fall off once you are out of combat
-heat builds faster below 50 and slower over 50
-failing that, make it actually worth it to overheat

[Clawbriar]

One thing that would help a lot with making this feel a lot more fluid:
-make Cooldown an ogcd skill
-why doesn't my Gauss Barrel equip itsself automatically after cooling down? There is not a single scenario I could think of why I wouldn't want it equipped
-make the "turret in repair" debuff fall off once you are out of combat
-heat builds faster below 50 and slower over 50
-failing that, make it actually worth it to overheat

To address the second: potentially stuff below level 62, as the only way to reduce Heat before then is via Quick Reload. You don't even get access to Heated Shots until 64.

[Kleeya]

If overheating is that punishing i wonder what people would say if permadeath was added to the game, one death and your character is erased from the server, back to lvl 1. Now that is a real punishment XD

It is only the beginning of the extension, i already begin to look less at the heat jauge, and really the only times i go into overheating without wanting it is because i go into a panick because something unexpected happen, like some other player thinking he can pull and tank the entire world. In some weeks, with way more experience on the job we may stay between 50-99 heat like it is a trivial task to do without even thinking of it.

Being 70 now, looking at the flame thrower and the current state of MCH i think that overheating is not meant to be achieved in purpose, except at the end of a fight if you want to end it in a bang with flashy effects, burning your dying opponents corpses with fire before making them explose in pieces by blowing your turret for the lolz (and even then, because of the cooldowns you better not have another fight waiting for you ten meters ahead). Wildfire damage is so low even when it goes well with crits and tons of skills used during these 10 seconds, that i can't see how it could be worth to time overheat and some turret explosion with it. Especially if it makes your general dps go down after that because of the momentary disappearance of the gauss barrel and the turret, and with a long cooldown on the barrel stabilizer and such restrictions and low damage on the flame thrower to make the heat back to 50 again.

I might change my view with more experience and if SE make some changes to the job, but for the time being i dont think that you absolutly have to time everything into wildfire. Which may be one of the reason why people are complaining, because it is one more change compared to the old MCH they were used to.

[SlayerOmega]

Yeah. It really just seems like someone at the lab at SE needs to just go in and move some numbers around to vring dps up atm. It really seems lile they just added a bunch of fluff to the class and never tested to make sure the kit worked well.

On a side note I do like ghe sounds of;

- Heat gauge gors to 0 after overheat
- Cooldown as an ogcd
- Also I DO like the current Wildfire setup. But with 1/2 the time we SHOULD get 2X the %
- Also I was thinking heat should be 10 when < 50 and 5 when > 50.

Thoughts?

(Also kinda like haveing to manually activate overheat)

[RichardButte]

If overheating is that punishing i wonder what people would say if permadeath was added to the game, one death and your character is erased from the server, back to lvl 1. Now that is a real punishment XD

We're not comparing the punishing nature of overheating to the nature of punishment in videogames on the whole, though.

We're comparing it to how much DPS it causes you to lose vs. how much DPS other DPS classes lose when they botch their rotation.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if MCH was top of the DPS charts but could only deliver this DPS if the player was 100% on point with the rotation at all times, the DPS loss on overheat would make more sense. However, MCH is literally dead last in DPS, and I feel safe in saying that most DPS classes don't have as complicated nor as punishing of a rotation.

[CosmicKirby]

I think what's REALLY telling is that our rotation is clearly INTENDED to have us both using Overdrive and Overheating. We're 'supposed' to Overheat to make Wildfires hurt more, that's why we have a 2 minute and a 1 minute CD option to bring our heat back up to 50 quickly.

Unfortunately, Wildfire just isn't the same anymore, without B4B, Raging Strikes, Hawk's eye, and 5 seconds less it just isn't going to be the bulk of our hits as designed. And one of the options (Flamethrower) is not only buggy, but a painfully low damage option.
I feel that an OGCD ability shouldn't be:
A.) Lasting at least 5 seconds before we do anything else, essentially making it a spell rather than an ability.
B.) So pitiful in damage it feels like a tradeoff rather than a really useful level 70 ability that ties our class together
C.) RISKY TO USE, because sometimes it just flat out cancels and we're left having to chug our heat gauge up the hard way.

[Kleeya]

I know what we are talking about, it was only a joke

For the comparison with other dps jobs, it depends of the player too. For example i am hardly dpsing well with ninja because i cant stand the mudra system and dont want to use it, have a hard time optimizing my dps with jobs requiring positionnals especially if the tank is moving the mobs everywhere, on the old DRG i dont count the number of times i did lose blood of the dragon because the boss was always jumping out of the screen at the wrong time. There is quite some jobs i am worst with than MCH because i keep failing to play them correctly, because of personnal preferences and skill, and when i go into donjons i will do a better job with a gun than something else, even if this something is in theory dpsing more.

Now that aside for MCH dpsing less in general if the job is getting some boosts in the future i only hope it will not be to the point that everyone will bandwagon to the job. Meanwhile i can continue without that, it is not like i am part of a hardcore raider team or something, always playing with a parser and doing theorycrafting.

[Yeol]

I really don't understand why MCH is that low.
Reading the tooltip shows that MCH should be doing much more potency wise compared to BRD (Heated + Ammunition + Rook Turret), especially since BRD is not affected by its own buffs.

Did the person doing parse enter overheat too early and used Rook Overdrive to max wildfire? Or maybe used Flamethrower to reach overheat?
Losing GB and your Turret is a dps loss when there is a target to hit.

MCH can enter overheat and lose GB before bosses change phase and become un-targetable.

[CosmicKirby]

I really don't understand why MCH is that low.
Reading the tooltip shows that MCH should be doing much more potency wise compared to BRD (Heated + Ammunition + Rook Turret), especially since BRD is not affected by its own buffs.

Did the person doing parse enter overheat too early and used Rook Overdrive to max wildfire? Or maybe used Flamethrower to reach overheat?
Losing GB and your Turret is a dps loss when there is a target to hit.

MCH can enter overheat and lose GB before bosses change phase and become un-targetable.

I think it's INCREDIBLY over-demanding that a MCH manage what's basically 3 separate mechanics in anticipation of phase changes. Whereas the MNK players still don't like and rarely effectively use one. (Tornado Kick).

Having the foresight to overheat about 10 seconds before a 'boss jump' or invuln, syncing cooldowns effectively for that, and then landing our own tornado kick is nuts. (Much less, Monk has ways to build up GL significantly faster than normal. There's NOTHING that will bring our turret back faster after an Overcharge.