I don't like the Ifrit battle: rant warning

[Frein]

So the OP wants another tank & spank encounter? I'm sorry, but this makes me so speechless I'll just stop writing now.

[slipmac]

another post by someone who probly hasnt beat him due to the lack of Sentinel.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Out of all of this, I agree with the Animation Lock problem.
Not that I don't agree with other subjects to different degrees.
But I strongly do feel this needs to be addressed.

[slipmac]

bump bump bump

[Jinko]

I agree they need to make Gladiator more useful, I dont' agree with Physic at all in what he says about MRD and PGL being tanks, if that were the case why are they making Warrior (a DD job) and Monk (a DD job), come 1.21 there will be only one tank and that will be Paladin, unless people still play as MRD in full party content. (which means SE failed with the Job system)

They need to fix shields which I'm sure they are doing.

They need to fix animation lag which should be very high up on the list.

They need to fix the flavour of the month, First Archer and now Lancer.

I'm not a big fan of tank and spam encounters and welcome the change to more dynamic content and encounters that being said the servers aren't up to the task and I hope they have some kind of fix for this in the short term because we can't wait til 2.0 for this latency issue to be fixed. (Especially if you expect us to pay)

And most importantly, please please please fix the loot system, nobody want to fight a monster 100 times and not get the item they are after, please consider adding a token system.

[Physic]

I agree they need to make Gladiator more useful, I dont' agree with Physic at all in what he says about MRD and PGL being tanks, if that were the case why are they making Warrior (a DD job) and Monk (a DD job), come 1.21 there will be only one tank and that will be Paladin, unless people still play as MRD in full party content. (which means SE failed with the Job system)

They need to fix shields which I'm sure they are doing.

They need to fix animation lag which should be very high up on the list.

They need to fix the flavour of the month, First Archer and now Lancer.

I'm not a big fan of tank and spam encounters and welcome the change to more dynamic content and encounters that being said the servers aren't up to the task and I hope they have some kind of fix for this in the short term because we can't wait til 2.0 for this latency issue to be fixed. (Especially if you expect us to pay)

And most importantly, please please please fix the loot system, nobody want to fight a monster 100 times and not get the item they are after, please consider adding a token system.

paladin is gld and marauder, that tells you something about marauder, that paladin needs the skills a marauder has to do its job

we really have no clue at all what monk is going to be. All the data points in various directions.

War is going to be more DD focused than tank says yoshida, this is true.


that said, the jobs are not the classes, the jobs are specific roles within the classes. Classes have multiple skill sets.

They would have to wipe or alter half the moves of pugilist to make it into a pure DD.
featherfoot ii
light strike
jarring strike /ii
haymaker /ii
siminan thrash
taunt /ii
discerning eye
presence of mind
accomplise
seasoned veteran

14/32 of pugilist skills help or require them to have hate to make use of them.

when that % of your skills are based around being targeted, then you need to be targetted, not even counting concussive blow, which is primarily of advantage to an evasion tank

10/32 on marauder.

you are only a 7 pugilist 8 mrd, so i understand you assume a lot about them, but it isnt as cut and dry as you make them. The fact is in order to even DD a marauder needs to be able to survive, and not lose hate easily(for aoe)

as far as using classes in party content, to be honest there will probably be times when it is more beneficial not to be on a job, especially if they completely limit them to one subclass. This will be situational, and probably be for when dealing with specific strategies, or when using a non optimal party set up, but it will still be there.

[Roaran]

Eh... Animation lock isn't an issue if you know when to WS. You may think it's annoying to be stuck in the animation... but YOU CHOOSING TO WS, at one of the predictable intervals in which Ifrit uses an attack... is well your fault. It goes along with the whole 'being terrible' thing. I've found once you learn the intervals and get in the rythm, you can near spam WS all day long except for those small windows where you have to be careful.

I think player's expecting to be able to move freely right after they use a skill is the problem. You can argue whether or not its good or bad ( It's bad I know), but at the moment that is how the game is, and that is how the game is balanced. So it really is irrelavent. Complaining about it either means your ignorant of that mechanic, or you don't understand how the encounter works. Either implies you're terrible.

Also.... OFCOURSE stacking vitality and defense won't help you and OFCOURSE you can't block ifrit's attacks! They are ELEMENTAL! You can get more HP through vitality but that defense is worthless. And you would know this... unless you're terrible.

I would go on, but I think I've made my point?

Edit: No I have one more... It's possible to beat Ifrit without cross classing any skills, its even possible to do it without any gear! For everything you think you need to beat ifrit just demonstrates how terrible you are.

[Rentahamster]

Why does Marauder need Defender and enmity-generating moves when it's not the primary tanking class?

It still has tanking characteristics like high HP and defense, and can be built to be a suitable tank.

Why do Pugilist and Lancer both get healing moves like Second Wind and Speed/Life Surge?

Life and Speed Surge are support abilities and debuff abilities, befitting a DD like lancer is supposed to be. Why shouldn't pugilist get a move that's like "Chakra"?

Why does Archer get Decoy?

Because using decoy is part of an archer's gameplay when soloing so you can buff multishot and avoid the first hit as you kite the mob.

Why does Pugilist get Accomplice?

Because it's also another class that can be used to tank (at least that was the intention. evade tank). It also has taunt, too. It's designed that way.

All of these seem like tanking moves to me, yet they're learned by jobs that aren't really designed for tanking in the first place...

Marauder and Pugilist are designed for some kinds of tanking. The only job that was ever a tank that was not designed to be a tank was Thaumaturge before the Emulate nerf.

The other skills that you mentioned have uses that are not just for tanking and have other useful applications as well.

[Jinko]

paladin is gld and marauder, that tells you something about marauder, that paladin needs the skills a marauder has to do its job

we really have no clue at all what monk is going to be. All the data points in various directions.

War is going to be more DD focused than tank says yoshida, this is true.


that said, the jobs are not the classes, the jobs are specific roles within the classes. Classes have multiple skill sets.

I never implied that was the case, although it seems fair to me that in 8 man content the ideal situation will be for everyone to be on a job doing the best at their specific role

They would have to wipe or alter half the moves of pugilist to make it into a pure DD.
featherfoot ii
light strike
jarring strike /ii
haymaker /ii
siminan thrash
taunt /ii
discerning eye
presence of mind
accomplise
seasoned veteran

Not entirely true, they could change them to proc in different circumstances, many of those moves you mention above are DD moves procced by evading attacks, they could have them proc on a miss similar to how fient works on LNC.

We already know they are making big changes to the skill set so anything could happen.

14/32 of pugilist skills help or require them to have hate to make use of them.

Interesting, huh ? when was the last time you saw a PGL tanking Ifrit ?

when that % of your skills are based around being targeted, then you need to be targetted, not even counting concussive blow, which is primarily of advantage to an evasion tank

As I said the skill are being changed and could be changed in line with what I suggested above, nobody knows til after the live letter.

10/32 on marauder.

you are only a 7 pugilist 8 mrd, so i understand you assume a lot about them

LMFAO and there goes the condescending tone (biggest reason I don't like replying to your posts), I have eyes in my head ya know !!, I talk to MRD's and PGL in my LS, I'm not completely dumb to how the classes work.

but it isnt as cut and dry as you make them. The fact is in order to even DD a marauder needs to be able to survive, and not lose hate easily(for aoe)

You are assuming they are playing solo ? which is fine, Jobs aren't designed for solo play.

as far as using classes in party content, to be honest there will probably be times when it is more beneficial not to be on a job,

Then SE failed, because the Job system is supposed to make you better at the role you plan to play, CNJ becomes a better healer, WAR becomes a better tank, Archer becomes a buffer, PGL,GLD,THM becomes better DD's.

especially if they completely limit them to one subclass. This will be situational, and probably be for when dealing with specific strategies, or when using a non optimal party set up, but it will still be there.

I can't see how that will happen, if you have 8 people and enough people to fit the roles then you are good to go, obviously if you end up with no healers 2 tanks and the rest DPS you are probably right, classes would be ther better way to go.

[Physic]

I never implied that was the case, although it seems fair to me that in 8 man content the ideal situation will be for everyone to be on a job doing the best at their specific role



Not entirely true, they could change them to proc in different circumstances, many of those moves you mention above are DD moves procced by evading attacks, they could have them proc on a miss similar to how fient works on LNC.

We already know they are making big changes to the skill set so anything could happen.



Interesting, huh ? when was the last time you saw a PGL tanking Ifrit ?



As I said the skill are being changed and could be changed in line with what I suggested above, nobody knows til after the live letter.



LMFAO and there goes the condescending tone (biggest reason I don't like replying to your posts), I have eyes in my head ya know !!, I talk to MRD's and PGL in my LS, I'm not completely dumb to how the classes work.



You are assuming they are playing solo ? which is fine, Jobs aren't designed for solo play.



Then SE failed, because the Job system is supposed to make you better at the role you plan to play, CNJ becomes a better healer, WAR becomes a better tank, Archer becomes a buffer, PGL,GLD,THM becomes better DD's.



I can't see how that will happen, if you have 8 people and enough people to fit the roles then you are good to go, obviously if you end up with no healers 2 tanks and the rest DPS you are probably right, classes would be ther better way to go.

Except sometimes the best way to survive is not to be a pure role. IE in a specific situation, a tank that can heal himself is more useful that the ultimate damage mitigating enmity man. Or a DD that can survive a battle with 4 mobs at once. You also have to think of party make up. lets say a pimp whm can heal 1200 hp per minute without going negative mana, but the encounter does 1600 hp per minute. you got another mage, do you get another 1200 hp whm, or do you get a class that can heal from 0-900 hp per minute but can also DD while doing that or inbetween doing that.

then there are situations where you may be missing a class and are lowmanning, which almost requires some people to take on dual roles.

I mean they could balance it so that classes totally eclipse jobs in everyway, but if thats the case, classes serve no purpose, and would in general not be better for soloing as they claim.

edit: btw im not trying to be condescending here,(i only bring up your level, because a person who levels pugilist should know that without his hate moves he will be even worse off than he is now) but i will tell you for certain, pugilist as it is now, has a pretty strong focus on getting hate, at least sometimes. Its one of the reasons a lot of pugilist are up in arms, recent changes have made thier viability as a tank, a lot lower. Used to be you could have a pugilist tank endgame stuff, but changes to light strike, and recent gear changes, have made it a bit less feasible, the problem is this also lowers DD potential.

the very concept of monk in most FF has include some counter mechanics, and to be very honest counter style fighting in this game is fairly entertaining, the sad part is it is getting diminished. They may in fact choose to get rid of it, but i hope if the do, they add some new interesting mechanic to pugilists, and not just make them a lancer with less range and tp gains.

the on miss tactic is also a very bad one, especially for pugilist, they currently have the highest dex, which boosts acc. and since they dont get access to some dmg boosting materias on certain parts, they will probably end up slotting more acc than other classes