Clemency a bit OP?

[Faytte]

On one to one basis, right. But 60s CD vs GCD, surely not.

They arnt apples to apples. But a tank is largely healing themselves after tank busters (which are circa every minute) or when the healer is somehow tardy. In that light OGCD burst healing is better and the warrior kit is great for it. Paladins have an advantage that they could spend their mana on on more healing, which would be similar to a warrior giving up fell cleaves for healing in a way. One is not strictly better than the other, they are different. OGCD is better however in the sense that you don't have a healer dc/dead.

Which is a GCD, and forces to rebuild a very valuable ressource for your damage output. Because without Beast, WAR lose much more than PLD without MP since the WS potency are closer to Holy Spirit than WAR's to Fell Cleave, especially since PLD could stay in Sword Oath.

Switching to Defiance is not a GCD. You can do it while in the animation lock of other abilities. More over, casting clemency has the same cost for paladin, giving up their damage output for Holy Spirit as well as their gauge regeneration which is needed for their MP restore. Fell Cleave can also be 'dumped' before moving to Defiance for any kind of planned healing which is the standard in FFXIV fights (i.e you know the tank buster is coming) making it less of an issue.

Sure, you have one heal skill that gets a 30% bonus, but that bonus is better used on something else. While Requiescat can apply a 20% bonus for up to five Clemencies without any penalty.
On top of that, those 5 spells can also be boosted by Convalescence, while WAR's can't profit of the whole duration.

I never said the bonus is not better used, only that if you are forced to make an emergency decision then there is a benefit to it. Its not as if you are out your berserk while in defensive stance either. You are still enjoying bonus damage over normal, just not ideal damage of course. Secondly, Requiscats bonus healing only occurs when the ability is used at over 80% mana, and most of a paladins rotation is set up to blow their mana on holy spirit and then build mana back up before the minute cd of requiscat is back up. Given requiscat is used in the opening rotation, the world in which you are back up to 80% mana with requiscat off cd and decide 'oh i need to use this to heal myself 5 times' is utterly silly.

Could a paladin do it though, spend all of their mana, one of their offensive cds and spend 12.5 seconds(recsts)/5 gcds to be a heal bot for a little while? Yes they can. RDM can do it as well through veracure spam if they are so inclined. But we are talking about what a class can do through very inefficient gameplay centered around the idea that one of your party members has DC'ed. The paladins damage is effectively auto attacks for 12.5 seconds to pull off that trick and their rotation is hampered. Warriors have less 'potential' self healing, but the self healing they have is easier to access and does not interfere with their ability to hit buttons, and given the very predictable nature of fights in FFXIV, its silly to not value how good that is. Every time a buster comes up a warrior can pop inner beast + either rampart or vengeance, then equilibrium the moment its struck before moving back to offense mode after eating up their meter.

[Faytte]

Please don't ask for Clemency nerf. D: The amount of times a PLD has saved my group from a crap healer already is invaluable, and I'd like to see more healing abilities given to them. XD

Clemency is fine. More healing though? I think the ability works well enough as is. If it was any stronger then the complaints in this thread would be justified. In the meanwhile Warriors just angry they are not better in every possible way like they used to be.

[YitharV2]

Clemency is fine. More healing though? I think the ability works well enough as is. If it was any stronger then the complaints in this thread would be justified. In the meanwhile Warriors just angry they are not better in every possible way like they used to be.

I'm not angry that PLDs are good. I'm angry because they took away things that were useful, like Flash and Bloodbath. I'm angry because they took away the fun part of Warrior, synergy between offense and defense.

[bswpayton]

First off, SB made a huge stride in the right direction for PLD. I will likely switch mains. Good work SE!

About Clemency:

Removeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this post leave my clemency alone Im so glad they cut the mp in half please SE dont listen to the op.

[winsock]

Secondly every time you cast clemency, your not casting holy spirit which is a choice between survival and damage (and guage).

you cant argue balance comparing a job to itself, you gotta compare to other classes. While PLD may lose dmg, WAR dies and loses everything.

Thirdly, Warriors have amazing self healing that is OGCD and has no other cost, and comes up about every minute or so, more than enough for dungeons and raids.

PLD can spam clemency 5 times in succession, and can rebuild all the mp lost in less than a minute.

Warrior has the 1200 heal *and* thrill of battle that they can pop off together for an immediate burst of healing before the Paladin gets a single clemency off.

Clemency has a 1.5s cast time... I have never died because I couldnt cast clemency fast enough. Most events in this game happen in 2-3 second intervals.

[bswpayton]

you cant argue balance comparing a job to itself, you gotta compare to other classes. While PLD may lose dmg, WAR dies and loses everything.


PLD can spam clemency 5 times in succession, and can rebuild all the mp lost in less than a minute.

And whats wrong with that, it fits with the lore thats all that matters

[aqskerorokero]

Please don't ask for Clemency nerf. D: The amount of times a PLD has saved my group from a crap healer already is invaluable, and I'd like to see more healing abilities given to them. XD

Yes, That's where the true meaning of paladin is, capability to save party member. Like yesterday when our healer lagged on the second boss of Ala Mhigo, die and boss had 20% hp left, I managed to slowly healing my 2 dpses and myself spamming only riot blade and fortunately I had requiescat up in time to cast 5 clemency to top 3 of us. But in more serious hard end fight this is unreal, if the healer die you wipe.

[Reynhart]

Switching to Defiance is not a GCD.

But using your gauge for Fell Cleave before is.

More over, casting clemency has the same cost for paladin, giving up their damage output for Holy Spirit as well as their gauge regeneration which is needed for their MP restore.

But without MP, PLD can still do its WS rotation, which has a higher average potency than WAR's, especially since, again, WAR needs to be in Defiance for the next 10s, delaying its next Fell Cleave by a lot.

Fell Cleave can also be 'dumped' before moving to Defiance for any kind of planned healing which is the standard in FFXIV fights (i.e you know the tank buster is coming) making it less of an issue.

You're right, but it's different if you need an emergency healing.

I never said the bonus is not better used, only that if you are forced to make an emergency decision then there is a benefit to it.

Of course there is, but since you mentioned DPS loss, we have to consider what WAR lose compared to its best output, and that's a big damage loss.

Given requiscat is used in the opening rotation, the world in which you are back up to 80% mana with requiscat off cd and decide 'oh i need to use this to heal myself 5 times' is utterly silly.

Just as silly as considering that Bersek would be up the moment you need that emergency healing.

[winsock]

And whats wrong with that, it fits with the lore thats all that matters

Lore is not all that matters. Pheonix Down historically could be used in combat, but cant in this game. It cant, because it would hurt game balance.

I am by no means arguing that PLDs should not be able to heal themselves, just that the healing they have at the moment is a bit over-the-top.

[Jonnycbad]

DRks can barely heal themselves. Odd because DRK in FFXI was all about Drains and Bloodweapons to take HP. The HP drain from Souleater is the only self heal they have, and Abyssal Drain but that's AoE and costs a ton of MP.