Clemency a bit OP?

[Kosmos992k]

I'm not certain about whether it's OP. For me Clemency is a dual purpose skill, in solo content it's point is obvious - self heal. In group content, especially for OT, I think it's more valuable as an "Oh Crap" heal for the MT (or self). Alernately, the OT can keep half an eye out for trouble and do something positive if things are fraught and health is low - say if a healer is down.

Combined with Divine veil, Cover and Intervention, I think it's a part of the Paladin's party defense toolbox rather than straight self heal. I mean obviously you get 50% of the heal yourself when you use Clemency on others, but given the MP cost, GCD loss and combo interruption, it's not like you're there to be a healer, it's just part of the toolset. If you spam it too often you hurt your DPS, a lesson I learned when a friend commented during HW content at how often I use clemency.

The fact that it takes away from the DPS counterbalances the power and spamability of Clemency IMHO.

[eagledorf]

No, they're not, because you can't overshield like you can overcure

Um, doesn't that mean shields are superior to heals of the same potency? Overheal is all wasted, but a shield is never wasted. The only time a shield is a problem is when they don't stack like Adlo and Nocturnal Aspected Benefic.

Player performance trackers literally count shields as heals. The only time a shield isn't equivalent or superior to a heal is it you don't take damage for its duration and it wears off.

you can't shield to trigger HP-based effect

You mean the thing only Paladin or Warrior has so it doesn't matter of DRK can trigger it or not? What point are you trying to even make by saying this?

TBN is certainly not self-heal and mitigation

What is Thrill of Battle? What is the shield part of Aldoquium? The Blackest Knight is the same.

[Reynhart]

Um, doesn't that mean shields are superior to heals of the same potency?

In a sense, yes, they are. But then you need to consider the MP cost, the recast, the effect of Convalescence, etc...

You mean the thing only Paladin or Warrior has so it doesn't matter of DRK can trigger it or not? What point are you trying to even make by saying this?

Spamming TBN can not ease the burden of Walking Dead. Nor does it have any direct effect on a Doom debuff like the one in Wanderer's Palace Hard.

What is Thrill of Battle? What is the shield part of Aldoquium? The Blackest Knight is the same.

Thrill Of Battle heals you and increases your max HP, Adloqium heals and puts a shield on you. Blackest Night only puts a shield, like Stoneskin did.

[cold52]

tbk isnt a heal or supiror to it, its because tbk only lasts for 5 seconds while actual healing isnt on the clock

this means unless an enemy is dealing over the 20% within that 5sec window it isnt getting full value while pld could heal over 20% of his own hp and have that hp when he needs to take the damage, this also in turn saves the healers time to heal and allows them to do more dmg instead

honestly not sure why drk didnt get a proper self heal this expansion, tbk is nice but it certainly isnt a heal, just more mitigation.

[Verdan]

If the paladin is too powerful, removing its support abilities isn't a good idea. I think you're probably crusin' for a reduction of your skill potency, but it would be silly to reduce the ability of the Paladin to heal and support its party. It'd be like removing bloobath on the warri-

ah shit Clemency's gonna get nerfed isn't it

[Fernosaur]

Clemency is an okay tool if you're in a dungeon and the healer dies. A PLD can carry a dead healer through a boss fight and keep everyone alive: the downside? PLD loses so much damage by doing this. By casting one Clemency, because of how it affects the Holy Spirit rotation and off-sets your combo rotations as well, you already lose quite a bit of DPS, but by spamming Clemency bc the healer is dead or whatever? Your damage output pretty much stops completely.

In comparing to the other two tanks, and for the sake of it, to how Warrior was in HW: right now, PLD has to stop everything they are doing in order to heal others or themselves. Warrior in HW kept dealing ridiculous damage, self-healing for ridiculous amounts, and lost... literally nothing for it. There's no point of comparison. Yes, PLD is extremely flexible for situations gone awry rn, but that doesn't make them OP, since Clemency is still an undesireable skill to use optimally.

If you're forced to use Clemency, it already means a lot of things have gone bad.

[Reynhart]

Your damage output pretty much stops completely.

Dead tanks don't do DPS.

Hell, if clemency is a trash tier skill, then so is shield bash.

So is Steel Cyclone because it does less damage than Decimate, so is Inner Beast because it deals less damage than Fell Cleave, so is Equilibrium because it forces the WAR to be in Defiance...and so is Defiance, because it reduces your damage output

[Faytte]

So is Steel Cyclone because it does less damage than Decimate, so is Inner Beast because it deals less damage than Fell Cleave, so is Equilibrium because it forces the WAR to be in Defiance...and so is Defiance, because it reduces your damage output

Order of magnitude. Steel Cyclone, Inner Beast still do damage. You are talking about a loss certainly but not a total loss. They also dont happen 1.5 seconds after you want them to occur as spells do. Moving in and out of defiance for a tank buster is also pretty moot, its 10 seconds of so to absorb a buster and then back to deliverance, all of it being OGCD.

[Reynhart]

Moving in and out of defiance for a tank buster is also pretty moot, its 10 seconds of so to absorb a buster and then back to deliverance, all of it being OGCD.

10 seconds of losing the damage buff from Deliverance, suffering the damage penatly of Defiance, and halving your beast gauge twice during the process...frankly, if you just need a 1200 potency heal to be thrown at you, it's better to let a PLD Clemency you than you popping Equilibrium...especially since, IIRC, Defiance only boost healing magic.

[Agrieus]

Flat out, clemency is in no way a wasted tool. Once you and your static are comfortable with an ex or savage fight, you probably won't need clemency. But to say it's a trash ability is just complete nonsense and undermining the purpose of even having it to begin with. Hell, if clemency is a trash tier skill, then so is shield bash. Why? Because it's only useful in situations and attributes nothing to dps. Might as well throw that off the hot bar too (sarcasm).