The Ifrit Fight is Dangerous to the Community.

[SilvertearRen]

I don't think it's necessary to gimp relatively easy encounters (lets face it... Ifrit ('Hard') is pretty darn easy now...) just because a portion of the community can't complete it... that's kind of like saying we have to play by the rules of people with the lowest sensitivities. In any case, scale-able content might be an option for this, making what would be a regular fight easier for people who can't seem to complete regular content. However, Note that some of us, when Ifrit came out, spent HOURS on end trying to defeat this brand new challenge, died more than 100 times in the process, but kept coming back for more, until we finally mastered it. But I understand that most people don't have the same amount of drive/ambition as others.

Pretty much. I'm just saying that we should have an option to do a slightly weaker version of Ifrit without the Ifrit loot drops. Make most of the parameters the same like HP so that the fight lasts roughly the same length as an actual full-difficulty Hyper fight, but reduce the damage output by maybe 5, 10%. This would give just enough flexibility for those who are not as dedicated, to be able to beat Ifrit.

Hell, why not make a quest out of it! Have the lesser-dedicated players go on a quest to find an item that will reduce Ifrit's damage in combat (while also penalizing loot drops)? It's not that difficult. And this type of solution offers MORE content for players to go through...

so basically it's your fault, but it's not your fault?

gg

fk it, while we're at it, let's make every fight scalable to the point where a blind, deaf, developmentally challenged quadriplegic midget can solo Ifrit if he wants, with a laser gun and orbital ion cannon strikes.

hey, it's more choices right?

I'm gonna have to draw that now... thanks, lol.

[Forerunner]

so basically it's your fault, but it's not your fault?

gg

fk it, while we're at it, let's make every fight scalable to the point where a blind, deaf, developmentally challenged quadriplegic midget can solo Ifrit if he wants, with a laser gun and orbital ion cannon strikes.

hey, it's more choices right?

Playerbase would go through the roof if the game was that accessible.

[Chardrizard]

so basically it's your fault, but it's not your fault?

gg

fk it, while we're at it, let's make every fight scalable to the point where a blind, deaf, developmentally challenged quadriplegic midget can solo Ifrit if he wants, with a laser gun and orbital ion cannon strikes.

hey, it's more choices right?

You opened my mind dude, equality for all!

[Gramul]

You don't scale Mount Everest as a greenhorn. :|

You start with say, Mount Hood, or Mount Rainier. Or hell, the Appalachians in the Eastern U.S., and work your way up. Some mountains even require you to have climbing training. The point is that you have to practice your way up to being able to beat him, rather than jumping straight into the hardest difficulty fight you can imagine, and then getting your arse mopped.

I believe that's what the climb to 50, and the 25 Ifrit fight are for.

Besides, you can always try again.

Actually, it can. Stress actually makes it harder for me to memorize things.

There are two types of stress, Eustress and Distress.
What you are describing is Distress. You need to convert your fear into excitement. Take control of your emotions. Remind yourself that failure is all part of the experience.

[grandm]

Both. Game designer, and to build bridges between different perspectives.

And yes, perhaps I'm doing the fight wrong - I see the mistakes I made in some areas, but I'm probably missing some mistakes elsewhere.

But you know what? This fight has brought out the good and bad in a lot of people. And that's just damaging. As a game designer, I don't believe in pushing mechanisms on a community, and causing them to breathe fire and brimstone at each other because of different opinions, perspectives, etc. It's just...depressing.

its your thread name that really gets me. dangerous to community? surely the more dangerous thing is boring content?. i bet most ppl that pick up a game want something to challenge them. if you want laid-back watch a film. if you want repetitive and boring get a job in a factory. when i do something , i want to go "yay i did that" not "thank you for giving me that"

[SilvertearRen]

I believe that's what the climb to 50, and the 25 Ifrit fight are for.

Besides, you can always try again.

The 25 Ifrit fight has a VASTLY different behavior pattern to the R45 fight. I see that as an invalid point.

its your thread name that really gets me. dangerous to community? surely the more dangerous thing is boring content?. i bet most ppl that pick up a game want something to challenge them. if you want laid-back watch a film. if you want repetitive and boring get a job in a factory. when i do something , i want to go "yay i did that" not "thank you for giving me that"

The topic has morphed a bit from the original post, but the intent of the title of the thread was to illustrate how divisive an encounter with a single difficulty mode can be. If you take the entire thread conversation into a single frame, you can really see just how divided people have become regarding the various topics of discussion at play here.

And I don't see why you can't still celebrate fighting Ifrit on Hyper Mode when it's set to the highest difficulty, even if it has different difficulty modes. I have already specifically illustrated and addressed that point of contention already and you people keep missing it. The ability to beat ifrit on the highest difficulty mode is definitely something to celebrate.

Beating IFrit on two-star difficulty mode is not cause for celebration, apart from saying, "Okay, I think I can take on three-star Ifrit now!"

[NoctisUmbra]

Know why? Resentment.

People are going to resent bad game design, as well as the fact that the most "hardcore" of people ever managed to beat Ifrit. That kind of elitist game design does not really support community unity. Especially when the hardcore shells decide to rub it into everybody else's faces by running around flashing their fancy drops.

No. It's not fun when your party wipes because of the following:

1. The design of the battle fails to take into account player lag - both technical and human.
2. Ifrit is far too powerful for the regular Classes. Jobs might make it easier, but seriously man...take this crap into account for a change.
3. The battles require a lot of "high spec", both technical, gear-wise, and class-wise. This is incredibly exclusionary, and does not really lend a lot of positive atmosphere to the fight.
4. The fact that some party configurations, like 6x Lancers, 2x Con/Thm, have a higher chance of success than other configurations, is simply repeating the Dzemael Mistake. (Whoring of the Archer class, anyone?)
5. I respect Yoshi-P for wanting to bring back the challenging factors of the olden-days of MMOs, but this is the wrong way to do it with the new generation of MMOs. I don't like it when I waste an hour of my time dying to Ifrit every time because of lag, animation lock, etc.

Basically what I am trying to say is that these fights do not account for the CURRENT state of FFXIV, which is something I find to be very irritating and un-fun.

Anyway, I needed to rant a bit. I am an aspiring game designer myself, and I really can't stand bad game design. Simply put, Dzemael Darkhold and Ifrit are both examples of bad design that caters to an exclusive subset that loves to inflict insane amounts of self-torture.

I would prefer that Yoshi-P actually do one thing: Focus his game design of these encounters around the largest segment of the playerbase. Hardcore players that like insane challenges do not apply to that category, because they are statistically a minority - I am not saying Hardcore players should be ignored, just that they should not be used as a point of reference for designing these things.

To quote a popular internet meme:

WTF is this sh*t?

You'll get over it when you beat him.

Make sure everyone has Sentinel.

Enter the fight with the same friends to promote consistent progress.

Learn from each and every mistake.

Pay attention and don't get hasty.

After a week of consistent tries at most, you'll have it down to a science.

The content, even with the server lag handicap, is not extremely difficult to beat at all. The difference between the casual and/or less skilled players and the hardcore ones is the amount of trials it takes before they learn and get better, not how possible it is to defeat.

[Alerith]

The 25 Ifrit fight has a VASTLY different behavior pattern to the R45 fight. I see that as an invalid point.



The topic has morphed a bit from the original post, but the intent of the title of the thread was to illustrate how divisive an encounter with a single difficulty mode can be.

You mean "none at all"?

You say the level 25 fight is invalid. So you want a higher level fight LIKE the level 50 fight, but not as "stressful"....which means it isn't like the level 50 fight, it's more like the level 25 fight.

Either that, or you're asking for the level 25 fight with the same behaviors of the level 50 Ifrit which would accomplish......nothing the current level 25 couldn't accomplish.

[Gramul]

The 25 Ifrit fight has a VASTLY different behavior pattern to the R45 fight. I see that as an invalid point.

Then just play the fight over and over till you win.

[Betelgeuzah]

Actually difficult encounters are not part of FINAL FANTASY.

There is no feeling of FINAL FANTASY in these battles if I'm not constantly falling asleep.

Why do I need to move around so much? Why not just make it based on your stats vs. monster stats? Why do Ineed to press so many more buttons than X???