WHM is much better now

[Gemina]

Casting the big heal before the shield defeats the purpose of applying that shield in the first place. A shield is applied to mitigate damage. But if you precast Cure II to hit directly after the damage, you can save your Lilly because you won't need a shield afterwards. If you cast it to top of the tank, chance is your co-healer will be slightly faster, tops of the tank, and robs you of your Lilly. You didn't have any of this trouble with Stoneskin. Also, Stoneskin wasn't gated behind a stupid mechanic AND a CD, and that's not even talking about having to spend MP anyway to get it. And, btw, if you raid, you usually know when the tankbuster is comming or you aren't a very good healer, sorry to be so blunt.

If a WHM is timing their cure 2 to land right after the TB, no healer is going to be fast enough to rob the WHM of their Lily, and even if they were, there is supposed to be coordination between healers in raids and savage, am I correct?

I get what he's saying, and the idea is if you need to cast cure 2 on the tank, they are taking enough damage to benefit from Benison. You only need one Lily, so cast cure 2 and follow with Benison to give yourself some breathing room. There is no RNG element involved with this. It is a straight heal and instant additional damage mitigation for the tank. This is exactly how I would use Benison in just about any content I run.

You can never really cast a bad shield. Even at full HP, a shield like Benison effectively increases the over all HP of the beneficiary.

[Erakir]

If a WHM is timing their cure 2 to land right after the TB, no healer is going to be fast enough to rob the WHM of their Lily, and even if they were, there is supposed to be coordination between healers in raids and savage, am I correct?

Actually, not in this case, because it appears that lilies do not generate on precasted heals. I've seen a few report this, and have noticed it myself but haven't done extensive testing. If the recipient's HP isn't sub-100% locally before the cast goes off but the heal lands on the server after the tankbuster like you want, no flower for you - but again that's with my limited testing so far. I've specifically tried it a few times, but don't want to state it as fact yet.

That I also seem to get lilies before the heal registers back from the server makes me think this is done a bit more locally in general than I'd like, as if the client doesn't tell the server to check and grant a lily unless the client itself sees a non-overheal. Similar to benediction going on CD but the heal not landing in time on the server's end.

I'm going to have to play more to see how much you'll actually have to "delay" a precasted heal to get a lily out of it if it is indeed true. Which would suck, as it penalizes good play, and the good ol' combo of tankbuster + autoattack is something you try to prevent as much as possible with good timing. I take pride in landing heals precise enough that the tank doesn't even notice their HP drop for even a fraction of a second, and it's unfortunate if I'll be penalized for that, now.

I'd rather they just remove the overheal component, at least on cure 2, as a workaround for that. No one's going to be spamming that for lilies in nearly all scenarios. Cures, maybe, but Cure 2s? Super unlikely. Even with cures, I wouldn't see the big deal. Savage healers are going to be spending that time doing damage rather than farming lilies at a 50% chance, so I don't see any significant balance coming out of it except not feeling like you've been robbed of quite as many flowers.

[Gemina]

snip..

That's a good and interesting point. You definitely should not be punished this way for proactive healing. I have noticed lilies procuring while in mid cast, but just figured it was server lag, but it would make sense if a pre cast fails to proc on a target at 100%. Hopefully they can fix this if that truly is the case. I'll have to run some tests as well.

[Yuyuka3]

If a WHM is timing their cure 2 to land right after the TB, no healer is going to be fast enough to rob the WHM of their Lily, and even if they were, there is supposed to be coordination between healers in raids and savage, am I correct?

I get what he's saying, and the idea is if you need to cast cure 2 on the tank, they are taking enough damage to benefit from Benison. You only need one Lily, so cast cure 2 and follow with Benison to give yourself some breathing room. There is no RNG element involved with this. It is a straight heal and instant additional damage mitigation for the tank. This is exactly how I would use Benison in just about any content I run.

You can never really cast a bad shield. Even at full HP, a shield like Benison effectively increases the over all HP of the beneficiary.

You didn't get the point at all. If I time Cure II to land after the tankbuster, chances are good that I don't need Benison anymore afterwards because the tank is out of danger zone already. Especially if your co-healer is worth their salt and heals as well when necessary. Shields are most useful when they are applied before the damage; afterwards, their usefulness is decreased drastically.

In A9S, for example, you applied Stoneskin before Ravensbeak to help the SCH mitigate as much DMG as possible. That's no longer possible in that way with Benison, because I have to heal first, then apply the shield, and if the tank is already topped, yay, no Lilly.

[Gemina]

You didn't get the point at all. If I time Cure II to land after the tankbuster, chances are good that I don't need Benison anymore afterwards because the tank is out of danger zone already. Especially if your co-healer is worth their salt and heals as well when necessary. Shields are most useful when they are applied before the damage; afterwards, their usefulness is decreased drastically.

In A9S, for example, you applied Stoneskin before Ravensbeak to help the SCH mitigate as much DMG as possible. That's no longer possible in that way with Benison, because I have to heal first, then apply the shield, and if the tank is already topped, yay, no Lilly.

I'm afraid you're the one not getting the point. What ability does WHM have to shield an oncoming hit now that stoneskin is gone? And why, and HOW could a tank possibly be topped off with a single cure 2 after a buster? Pre damage mitigation falls on SCH or AST. That is what your Co healer should be doing since WHM is unable to do so.

Tell me, in your extensive savage history, does the mob divert its attention to someone other than the tank after a TB, or does it continue to try and kill him? If the answer is the later, the tank benefits from Benison. Shields have to be reapplied after they are stripped. WHM does this in an instant with Benison. And even if the mob does turn its attention to another player, you can slap them with the barrier.

Again, you can't really cast a bad shield. Especially one that is ogcd and MP free. Benison does have a duration, but if you're paying attention, this shouldn't be a problem.

You also might want to factor that WHM runs content other than raids.

[Yuyuka3]

Snip

That's the point. I would take Stoneskin over Benison any day, because Stoneskin can actually be applied to more than one person a time, has a considerably longer runtime meaning it will actually be up when the person gets damage unlike Benison, and doesn't have a 30 second CD. And no, if both healers help topping off after a buster, Benison is not that dire, because the tank is out of danger zone very fast. So you are the one acting as if you are alone out there. Besides, you do know Stoneskin stacked with Adlo and Aspected Benefic, right? That was two layers of mitigation there. There is also no need to have shields up constantly. And pre-damage mitigation falls on anyone capable to do so, but hey, Square just stripped us of our only option, so yes, WHM is unable to do so because Benison is far too wonky a skill for it. Which is what I say this entire time.

Also, no need to get snappy here. Day was bad enough as is.

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

And pre-damage mitigation falls on anyone capable to do so, but hey, Square just stripped us of our only option, so yes, WHM is unable to do so because Benison is far too wonky a skill for it. Which is what I say this entire time.

Also, no need to get snappy here. Day was bad enough as is.

What do you fear from a tank buster? Its the fact that it does about 60% of your tanks health in damage, and your afraid hits after the tank buster will kill them. Stoneskin softens the first blow and you cure through the continued damage. Benison works in reverse you cure 2 through the first blow and Benison after to block the remaining damage. Your co healer doesn't need to help you heal the tank they can be topping off dps or doing damage. Benison can be used more than that 1 special time in a fight, its constant damage mitigation (every 15s). You get a lily about 1 in every 2 cures so lets not pretend lilies are hard to get (dont need 3 to cast benison)

[Elamys]

What do you fear from a tank buster? Its the fact that it does about 60% of your tanks health in damage, and your afraid hits after the tank buster will kill them. Stoneskin softens the first blow and you cure through the continued damage. Benison works in reverse you cure 2 through the first blow and Benison after to block the remaining damage. Your co healer doesn't need to help you heal the tank they can be topping off dps or doing damage. Benison can be used more than that 1 special time in a fight, its constant damage mitigation (every 15s). You get a lily about 1 in every 2 cures so lets not pretend lilies are hard to get (dont need 3 to cast benison)

Not to mention that Stoneskin was a clunky ability with a high mana cost and a long cast time, and wasn't exactly strong to boot. I'm glad it's gone. I'd like to see a slight numbers buff on Benison, but let's not pretend that Stoneskin was a core part of the white mage playstyle here.

[Crewman]

but let's not pretend that Stoneskin was a core part of the white mage playstyle here.

It actually wasn't at all. People seem to expect stoneskin to protect the tank above all else. I never once used it in this manner. I often used it to assist in keeping the squishy people alive because they aren't taking constant damage. Going back to FFXI days, stoneskin was much stronger as well. What we have here is a fixing what isn't broken mentality. What I mean by that is, it could of just been improved, rather than forcing you to rely on a gauge ability to even cast a damage mitigation spell on a single target. All SE needed to do was possibly change it a little, and allow stoneskin II during combat. Stoneskin was one of the most useful for soloing as well, and that is all but a crap shoot now with lower level healers trying to solo without it.

[MayuraT]

Not to mention that Stoneskin was a clunky ability with a high mana cost and a long cast time, and wasn't exactly strong to boot. I'm glad it's gone. I'd like to see a slight numbers buff on Benison, but let's not pretend that Stoneskin was a core part of the white mage playstyle here.

Um... I like to cast Stoneskin on those DPS that insist on dying to every other mechanic or just on the person with sickness to prevent more deaths (or on myself when I start dying on every other mechanic @_@) being that it is MP inefficient having it is still better than having to raise and run around with sickness. WHM is definitely 'playable' and 'fine' but it is definitely much more boring and I also miss Stoneskin very much