Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[Tonkra]

They main thing I hate is how squishy the pets are now. Titan egi can't even go one on one with a mob their own level now and survive on their own.

My Garuda died to the first boss aoe in the new Stormblood dungeon.. I debated if it was even worth spending time recasting it.

Summoner is a pet class.. let me have awesome pets.

I don't care if my character does ZERO damage via spells as long as I have badass pets doing all the work.

I honestly think it may be time to return to my Hunter Beastmaster in WoW cause I really miss having useful pets.

The only good point in this thread of a while.

Instead of asking for a heal you better ask to push your pets / or damage overall.
And asking for pet heal to be implemented back again instead of becoming a semi-healer...

and yes RDM as a hybrid class always was a semi-healer in the traditional job system which FFXI/FFXIV make use of. RDM is a hybrid class between healing/black magic/melee attacks. Which SMN isnt.. if you dont know that look it up. And as so far as it looks now a RDM wont outdamage my Black mage, the only unique selling point would be "melee attacks" and "semi-good heal".
If now every dd asks for heal this uniqueness would be gone. The summoner job in FFXIV should find its own uniqueness.. and not becoming a semi healer.


These other suggestions are as appropiate like the other suggestion in an other thread, to give demi-bahamut glamours.. So that we could see Shiva shooting laser beams in the near future..

i cant understand why people ask inappropiate stuff like that, they dont care about FF, the lore at all.

[Texa]

The only good point in this thread of a while.

Instead of asking for a heal you better ask to push your pets / or damage overall.

It's hard to up their DPS when they are constantly dying to room wide aoes.

You're having a really hard time explaining your point without becoming personally condescending.

[Tonkra]

Cause at this point, I want heavensward summoner back

And thats why you asking to become a healer? very interesting point..

and no, the summoner job never was able to heal via cure. as it is a white mage skill. (and RDM makes use of WHM and BLM spells)
already said thousand times before that FFVII-FFX/FFXIII/FFXV had no traditional job system, they had no summoner job class.

It's hard to up their DPS when they are constantly dying to room wide aoes.

You're having a really hard time explaining your point without becoming personally condescending.

And i maybe can write it 100 times for you: ask to get back "sustain" (pet HoT) or a even a pet heal. Problem solved.

Being able to heal as a dd is the only uniqueness for RDM as for now. RDM always was and is a semi-support healer.. because he is a hybrid between white magic/black magic/melee. RDM wont ever outdamage a BLM as it looks for now.. so you want to remove that only uniqueness from him by giving Summoner heal which isnt appropiate to his dd role and the job class itself.

So why are you not asking to improve SMN on the other hand to find its own uniqueness (better pets, return of pet-heal)

Additionally improving Physick heal would lead to a decreasing DPS on the other hand because you would spend more time to heal instead of doing damage spells.
This is why getting back sustain would be the much better option.

[Texa]

So why are you not asking to improve SMN on the other hand to find its own uniqueness (better pets, return of pet-heal)

Because what qualifies as "better" is subjective and not an opinion I necessarily share.

[Ariomi]

And thats why you asking to become a healer? very interesting point..

I'm asking for a healing skill, that Summoner already currently possesses, to be buffed so the spell, like the rest of the class can be useful.
Currently Physic needs a buff as much as Summoner does.

Additionally improving Physick heal would lead to a decreasing DPS on the other hand because you would spend more time to heal instead of doing damage spells.

Nope! If I see my pet low on health, I cast Physic on it and it get's healed. Dps gain over losing my pet and having to re-summon. You assume I would be using the skill more then I actually would. The heal would be used in emergencies where something or somebody is about to die, and if that one physic saves me/my pet/that person that one physic is a massive dps increase.

[Eloah]

stuff, not necessarily this post specifically,

Okay I tried to read everything, but after several pages I just had to chime in. Cause dude you need to quit while you can.

You seem to be unaware that every job SE has ever brought into existance can have a unique take per game. Here I'll give you a reverse example, maybe then you'll understand. "OMG change SCH, this is rediculous, SCHs don't have pets thats not what a traditional SCH does. Why do I summon a fairy, wouldn't that make me a SMN. I just want a traditional SCH." Hopefully that irony isn't lost on you or anyone else.

Oh and... you keep mentioning VII-X, but you might want to get your facts straightened out a little. First off, if you are forgoing a job system why not include II, IV, and VI. Second, You keep including IX, but IX has a Pseudo Job System, you just can't swap jobs, just the characters; IV is sorta similar but a bit different because of how the story progresses and the characters that come and go And Third, to add to the above, even when a job system isn't present, most character's are designed to fit into a Job, this is the case for VI, VII, VIII, and X. You are correct XII, did not have these systems. XIII, however had a different take on the Job System. And I've never played XV, but it looks like no Jib System is present there either.

Now onto the "pure" job debate... yeah that doesn't exist, SE can edit, alter, and create jobs as they see fit, since they are the creators. Some games have only Ninjas some have only Thieves, some both, same with Warriors or Fighters, Conjurers and Summoners... and hey on that topic, isn't the traditional FF Conjurer a lesser Summoner who can't call the summon just use their power briefly? And segwaying from that, some Jobs have had different names in the series, Conjurer/Evoker, Blue Mage/Gun Mage/Vampire, Dancer and Bard/Songstress/Performer, Dragoon/Dragon Knight/Valkyrie, Knight/Paladin/Holy Knight, the list goes on. And lastly not always is a job defined by its weapon... as you "pointed out" with DRK and Scythes. Warriors don't always wield axes, traditionally its swords. most Dark Knights in the series use swords not scythes, don't recall Summoners using grimoires really, or, and lets get the big on out of the way, when has a Bard used a Bow? Weapons are just that, weapons, what the character uses to deal damage, sometimes they are specific to that game and character, other times they can be what the player wants, they aren't set in stone. Eiko, a SMN, used Flutes, Rydia a SMN used Whips, Rosa a WHM used Bows, Wakka a RNG used Blitzballs, Cait Sith a BST used Megaphones, etc.

The main point is the series as a whole isn't as black and white as some people believe. The only things it has are commonalities that create the feeling of the jobs and world that SE is trying to make. As with RDM, they were worried that fans would not like their take, but they were able to do the job justice, but giving a jack-of-all-trades feel, not too strong in one area (maybe in magic though for obvious reasons) but where you have to use all 3 aspects to fight effectively.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Nope, this class is a dps not a healer, it may of needed arcanist at first to become a summoner at most I'd think it would at least get some sort of bonus to healing the pet with that skill but nothing else other than that. It would be bad to have more classes running around like the red mage does and negating the use of the other healers.

Physick, return of sustain...

Summoners need a way to keep their pets alive, even in solo content.
Otherwise, there's no use for a tank pet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my take on it, if you are still discussing Sustain (SMN pet heal) and not just finding flaws in each other's logic, is that now healers will have the responsibility to keep pets and such up. For example your fellow healer could keep an eye on your fairy too, while you also keep an eye on both your fairy and SMN's pet. That sort of dynamic doesn't seem far-fetched.

I haven't done any healing since Stormblood launched...

But, back in heavensward it was really difficult to keep track of other player's pets.
They don't show up on the party list.

And, on controller especially, it is difficult to target them.
You're required to adjust your targeting filters constantly to change targets around between the pets and enemies.

If the design is to have the healers be responsible for pet health, then it needs to be much easier than it was in heavensward.

[Synrin]

Physick, return of sustain...

Summoners need a way to keep their pets alive, even in solo content.
Otherwise, there's no use for a tank pet.

I haven't done any healing since Stormblood launched...

But, back in heavensward it was really difficult to keep track of other player's pets.
They don't show up on the party list.

And, on controller especially, it is difficult to target them.
You're required to adjust your targeting filters constantly to change targets around between the pets and enemies.

If the design is to have the healers be responsible for pet health, then it needs to be much easier than it was in heavensward.

That is very much true. I don't know what SE was thinking.

And @Tonkra, it is time you have excused yourself out of this thread. You are being a FF-nazi FOR NO REASON when people are trying to discuss how to fix the issue at hand. In an MMO. So please just stop because you have now spammed PAGES of absolutely irrelevant information. Read the original post, read the title, contribute to that, or GTFO. Same with you people who are arguing with him, take it in private if you are so damn stubborn. Thanks.

[Ariomi]

Instead of asking for a heal you better ask to push your pets / or damage overall.
And asking for pet heal to be implemented back again instead of becoming a semi-healer...

and yes RDM always was a semi-healer in the traditional job system which FFXI/FFXIV make use of. RDM is a hybrid class between healing/black magic/melee attacks. Which SMN isnt..

While red mage is traditional how traditional is dark knight as a tank?
Summoner's have always had the ability to heal. How they heal doesn't matter. Can summoner's in old games heal? Yes or no? Yes?
Oh if you go back to my original post, I mention how not only is summoner's dps is low from everything being nerfed, including pets strongest skill getting reduced 40% with the loss of a pet cooldown and the pet heal getting removed. I don't think we will be getting any of that back. So why ask? Cause at this point, I want heavensward summoner back