Boycotting Warrior 4.0 (Let's do it!)

[Jhaerik]

Ya know not all of us base our job choices off of spreadsheets. I liked liked how the Warrior sounded on paper.. and went with it. It was purely the concept I liked. Tank classes with damage that scaled off VIT + 2 hander + what is effectly lifesteal + the ability to do so on AoE pulls.

I'm not one to make alts, I have no interest in playing other jobs. What does that leave me with? A watered down tank with nothing interesting about it other than some damage ability in the middle of a rotation. Why do people care so damn much about Fellcleave damage... is warrior so shit that the only reason people now play it is "lolz big FC numbers yo"

What about the fact that I literally lost half a hotbar of abilities? Everyone I ask about FF14 says "play it for the story/lore" where the hell is the lore in waking up one day and not remembering how to use 5 abilities I used yesterday?

[Baci]

The thing is, the gauge price on stance swapping doesn't automatically makes you weaker than other tanks, which is the most important part. The game is rebalanced, like it was when 3.0 launched.

Well yes it does. I cant speak for DRK but look what PLD has as gauge spenders and look at WAR. PLD looses way less survivability and looses nearly 0 dps from halving his gauge.

[Reynhart]

Well yes it does.

No, it doesn't. Because PLD gained not much survivability and absolutely 0 DPS by having the gauge in the first place.

is warrior so shit that the only reason people now play it is "lolz big FC numbers yo"

Well, if you look at numerous tank theory threads during 3.x, yeah pretty much

What about the fact that I literally lost half a hotbar of abilities?

Like everyone...and frankly, it would have been a pain in the ass having to manage 40 skills all the times.

[Alphras]

Considering that DRK and PLD can offer one-time mitigation higher than the basic tank stance, it could be very useful for skipping stance swap (Especially if the MT is a WAR) just before a tankbuster.

DRK only offers a 10% shield (based on the DRKs HP). Thats something like 8% more eHP on a WAR. Not that exciting. Most tanks in a raid scenario will forgo that for more dps (if the shield is really a dps loss as theory crafted).

PLD seems better on paper, but looks to me like overkill. You can do similar stuff with a simple tank swap.

We will need to wait for savage and see how that looks though. I am basing my opinion on old savage content at the moment.

[Launched]

Why does no one acknowledge how awesome it is to be able to build 100 instead of complaining than you can not have more than what IB requres after swap (Which was always th case) ? Now, you can naturally do 2 Fell Cleaves back to back. And also, you can build Gauge faster than before with Storm's Path.

Because 10 stacks max isn't actually any better, and with crit stacks it's actually a slight nerf. Building up to 100 and doing 2 FC doesn't feel much different to building up to 5 stacks twice, but right now we get 10% crit for one FC and 5% for the other, while in HW it was 10% on every FC. Having to build up to 100 in the shortened time between Berserks is incredibly restrictive. Faster generation doesn't really matter when you can't fit FC outside Berserk anyway.

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

Please don't make up these kinds of arguments when there have been pages of valid complaints. No one is saying we want to be overpowered, we're saying SB WAR feels much worse and has nothing to offer a group while PLD got huge buffs (despite the gap between tanks not being that huge) and even DRK got some utility.

[Achelon]

Please don't make up these kinds of arguments when there have been pages of valid complaints. No one is saying we want to be overpowered, we're saying SB WAR feels much worse and has nothing to offer a group while PLD got huge buffs (despite the gap between tanks not being that huge) and even DRK got some utility.

I'm not making those arguments to provoke a fight, yes, there has been several comments with good ideas and complaints, but a lot of 'em has been in the end just a "we are not the same tank that in HW and we are behind PLD now". There will always be a tank behind another. And sincerely, I don't see the WAR current state to be so bad that everyone is making a fuss and even saying that PLD will be the go-to now.

If we want to compare our current sitaution, let's do it against first week of Heavensward, not last month of the expansion, with everyone full 270, perfect stats and able to split in two anyone with our mighty axes.

[Reynhart]

DRK only offers a 10% shield (based on the DRKs HP). Thats something like 8% more eHP on a WAR. Not that exciting. Most tanks in a raid scenario will forgo that for more dps (if the shield is really a dps loss as theory crafted).

It's a little more complicated since shields are calculated separately from percentage reduction.

For example, let's take a 40kHP DRK and WAR. For any hit below 28k, the WAR will have higher remaining %HP with Vengeance+Shield than Vengeance+Defiance.
28000*0.7 = 19600
50000 (HP with Defiance) - 19600 = 30400 = 60% remaining HP

(28000*0.7)-4000 (TBN) = 15600
40000 (HP with Deliverance) - 15600 = 24400 = 61% remaining HP

Against Rampart, TBN gains the upper hand at around 25000 damage unmitigated.

For me, it's better for the DRK to lose one or two Dark Arts for TBN than forcing the WAR to go back to Defiance and losing most of its Beast.

Because 10 stacks max isn't actually any better, and with crit stacks it's actually a slight nerf.

Yes it is, because you'll want the highest gauge available for when Berserk and Inner Release are up.

[Alphras]

That would be a really low tank buster, not even worthy of any CD besides maybe Inner Beast ... actually you wouldn't even be in Defiance for that. Even Susano normal hits higher against lower HP values. In this example, the dps loss (if there really is any) wouldn't be worth the shield.

Edit: Clemency was already that strong in HW and no one used it. Now it is in competition with a dps ability ...

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, TBN is a nice ability, but I don't belive it will play any role for people thinking about which tanks to take into savage. Maybe it will be nice for certain mechanics on lower hp player, where the 10% shield is stronger. We will see. Maybe savage will suprise me.

[stevy1]

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

We have better damage than DRK, and we still have to see if PLD do have better damage than we do or not (at level 70 we can have Infuriate aproximately every 30s with the trait).
We have better mobility than Paladin but worse than DRK.
We have better AoE than PLD (my opinion on this tho) but worse than DRK (not in damage but in options).
We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.
We have better sustain than DRK or PLD (Storm's Path, Equilibrium and Inner Beast).

I'm pretty sure pld has better substain than warrior, you know now we can clemency for easily 70k hp in 10sec and then get our mp back after like 15 sec. pretty sure war cant match that

[Reynhart]

Edit: Clemency was already that strong in HW and no one used it. Now it is in competition with a dps ability ...

It cost twice the amount of MP and could be interrupted in HW. Two things that were considered unredeemable flaws.

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, TBN is a nice ability, but I don't believe it will play any role for people thinking about which tanks to take into savage.

Well, considering that WAR almost no raid mitigation, we'll probably see more PLD and DRK as OT than before.