SE made this game AST only, why?

[JunseiKei]

How is this our fault? We simply adjust based on the functionality surrounding their game design. Why am I doing to spend more time in tank stance when I won't have any need of it? Why am I going to heal using Cure when Regen is vastly superior? The devs can push back all they fancy. All it accomplishes is outright rejection from the playerbase. People have been saying for two years now Paladin needed magic mitigation yet the devs insisted otherwise. Lo and behold, Paladin falls out of use relatively to Dark Knight and suddenly they slap magic mitigation on it. Healers aren't just going to suddenly use Cure and Cure II more frequently because the devs prefer that nor will they stay in tank stance longer unless its required.

These are choices made by a player to be optimized, because it is simply not required as per design. The issue is stemming from efficiency being enforced by other players as design. This is SE sighing and caving because players do not listen. You know, those kids that throw tantrums to get what they want and get it because parents are tired of dealing with it (or some other excuse). You fail to mention how paladin can just as well do content as the other tank roles, creating just a bit of a false scenario, or at least a misleading one. It's not that paladin needed it, but content was certainly easier on other jobs. Yet, it was nowhere near impossible to do it on a job that would require better resource management or simply higher execution to do it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

These are choices made by a player to be optimized, because it is simply not required as per design. The issue is stemming from efficiency being enforced by other players as design. This is SE sighing and caving because players do not listen. You know, those kids that throw tantrums to get what they want and get it because parents are tired of dealing with it (or some other excuse).

That's human nature though. Most people aim to improve, even if only a little bit. You don't have to be thinking about the meta to recognize certain decisions are, frankly, lazy. Making trash mobs smarter or more varied requires more thought. The upper floors of PotD have you actually question whether you want to pull three mobs or just one; priority targets that need to be single targeted down fast; good usage of your defensive and healing abilities. None of this is hardcore raider level intensity, but simply asks you pay attention and think. Trying to force people into keeping tank stance up by arbitrarily punishing you for switching is simply lazy design. We shall see how it all translates but this isn't going to change how people approach the game. They'll either reject certain jobs or push back. It happened in ARR and it happened in HW. SB won't be any different.

[Dualgunner]

Making trash mobs smarter or more varied requires more thought. The upper floors of PotD have you actually question whether you want to pull three mobs or just one; priority targets that need to be single targeted down fast; good usage of your defensive and healing abilities. None of this is hardcore raider level intensity, but simply asks you pay attention and think. Trying to force people into keeping tank stance up by arbitrarily punishing you for switching is simply lazy design. We shall see how it all translates but this isn't going to change how people approach the game.

Was talking with an fc mate about legitimate ways to make trash more interesting. By and far the best we came up with is make all mobs like PotD 150+ trash.

[YitharV2]

Trying to force people into keeping tank stance up by arbitrarily punishing you for switching is simply lazy design. We shall see how it all translates but this isn't going to change how people approach the game. They'll either reject certain jobs or push back. It happened in ARR and it happened in HW. SB won't be any different.

Yeah. If they want us to use tank stance, they need to make bosses more hard hitting. "But then it'll be too hard for some people!" Maybe, but it's also too easy for a lot of people.

[Paladinleeds]

You fail to mention how paladin can just as well do content as the other tank roles, creating just a bit of a false scenario, or at least a misleading one. It's not that paladin needed it, but content was certainly easier on other jobs. Yet, it was nowhere near impossible to do it on a job that would require better resource management or simply higher execution to do it.

And here is the crux of their argument. The playerbase will generally slide towards the path of least resistance. If it's easier to do it with a different job, they will push people towards that job. Whereas the JP players likely accept the jobs people come with and work with them to get the clear, generally speaking NA players will ask for you to either change to that specific job (say DRK instead of PLD for Heavensward), or you won't get to go. Again, path of least resistance.

[Zojha]

If it's easier to do it with a different job, they will push people towards that job.

And if it's easier to do with a job rather than a class, they will push people towards unlocking a job. Even if the content can be cleared with a class. And truth be told, the same goes for suboptimal rotations and stat setups (if we had any).

It's a fairly consistent process of urging people to please be as beneficial to the group as possible and it extends to pretty much any statistical advantage. And if you cannot fight that at one level, you need to fight that as a whole and that means creating a culture where people are fine with carrying people.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

And if you cannot fight that at one level, you need to fight that as a whole and that means creating a culture where people are fine with carrying people.

Not an easy thing to do, though apparently Japan has this kind of culture.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

These are choices made by a player to be optimized, because it is simply not required as per design. The issue is stemming from efficiency being enforced by other players as design. This is SE sighing and caving because players do not listen. You know, those kids that throw tantrums to get what they want and get it because parents are tired of dealing with it (or some other excuse). You fail to mention how paladin can just as well do content as the other tank roles, creating just a bit of a false scenario, or at least a misleading one. It's not that paladin needed it, but content was certainly easier on other jobs. Yet, it was nowhere near impossible to do it on a job that would require better resource management or simply higher execution to do it.

The correlation you are attempting to draw doesn't make sense. You're essentially equating the playercase to toddlers for... discovering how to play the game better based on existing functionality? Paladin clearing content has nothing to do with this discussion nor does the meta. It's about basic adjustment using the tools provided. If I notice the outgoing damage is comparatively low relative to my defense and HP, why wouldn't I experiment with dropping tank stance? Since you brought up Savage, I'll cite A12S. On Warrior, I could time my cooldowns so I always had Holmgang available to eat Punishing Heat. What use is Defiance in a scenario where I cannot be killed? On Dark Knight, you could do the entire fight without turning on Grit once, even without a Ninja. All this demonstrations is the players responding to low tuned encounters. You acknowledge the flaws... but don't see the issue? Paladin required more from the raid than Warrior or Dark Knight while contributing less. It's human nature people were bias against it. That isn't going to change in Stormblood. In fact, multiple raid discords I am are discussing how viable double Paladin will be.

But again, let's move away from Savage. I queued into 50/60 roulette when the servers were up. What happened? The tank pulled everything and the healer DPS'd. Nothing changed. I would say it took longer, but Dragoon and Samurai are monstrously powerful now.

If you wanted a DPS class, maybe you should have not chosen a healer.

And when there is nothing to heal, what do you purpose I do? Uselessly cast Cure every time the tank takes a scratch? Stand idle and wait for some damage? This has been the fundamental problem. The devs won't make content require large amounts of healing or necessary damage mitigation, thus people DPS. You cannot fault the playerbase when they're simply using the functions provided to them.