So why play anything other then paladin?

[ChloeGrace]

Then when the player numbers look right they nerf paladin to be more in line with the other tanks.

Just like they waited 2 years to nerf warrior once it had its numbers up? Doubtful.
This is what every paladin bashing, smug warrior and dark knight needs - a reality check.
If you can't handle playing a "viable" job, then switch.

[Shurrikhan]

Just like they waited 2 years to nerf warrior once it had its numbers up? Doubtful.
This is what every paladin bashing, smug warrior and dark knight needs - a reality check.

Imbalancing the tanks in an even more prominent manner does not provide a reality check. I see nothing wrong with players playing the tanks that are most favored by a given encounter. I do, however, think SE might need a reality check if they're willing to make that a single tank, by a large margin, for a disproportionate number of encounters.

tl;dr: Revenge =/= justice... nor balance.

[eagledorf]

snip

To be blunt I have no sympathy for WAR players. I'm only really upset for DRK because they're getting shafted out of the blue, though I think most of us knew it was coming eventually.

[Hruodig]

To be blunt I have no sympathy for WAR players. I'm only really upset for DRK because they're getting shafted out of the blue, though I think most of us knew it was coming eventually.

Lol you really think anyone who raided on warrior WANTED pld to be meme-tier? Like we had some sort of vendetta against pld mains? get over yourself

[eagledorf]

Of course not, but WAR players were content with the situation in 3.0. They should not have been, they should have been asking for themselves to be nerfed like some SCH players were.

[aleph_null]

Of course not, but WAR players were content with the situation in 3.0. They should not have been, they should have been asking for themselves to be nerfed like some SCH players were.

I don't know about others, but I think quite a lot of people played war/drk because they perform well in 3.x, and those of us who did will just switch to whichever tanks perform well in 4.x.

Doesn't really matter. Mitigation overkill is a thing, just like overhealing. If PLD can comfortably survive everything in Sword Oath (and its skillset seems like it should be fine for that, especially since Sheltron works in Sword Oath and you can block magic) and do more DPS/have more utility at the same time, why bother taking a tank with higher mitigation?

Mitigation overkill isn't really a concern when it comes to "free" mitigation though (as in mitigation skills that don't cost you any dps loss). Ignoring inner beast war now has rampart (90s), thrill (120s), vengeance (120s), and holmgang (180s).

For example if we take a12s without phase skips, with a rampart war can tank the whole fight safely without defiance:

holmgang first buster in p1,
rampart vengeance the second buster in p1,
holmgang the buster after stasis 1,
vengeance rampart the buster after stasis 2,
thrill rampart the buster during timegate,
holmgang the buster after inception 1,
vengeance rampart the buster after inception 2,
holmgang the first chastening heat.

I don't think even drk can do the whole fight as MT without grit. Of course this is not a relevant discussion since it's an old raid while I'm talking about new skills, but the addition of rampart makes war's defensive kit outside defiance pretty damn solid. Pld might be better depending on how fast the sword oath gauge fills up (for shelltron).

[Brannigan]

-

If they keep consistent, paladin should generate 5 oath every 2.24 seconds in Sword Oath (not counting Skillspeed, haste buffs, etc). I don't think they're going to hand out different sword speeds or shield strengths at max level anymore because Gordian was the last sword that wasn't 2.24 and Gordian/heavens were the last non-kite shields. That's ~22.5 seconds per Sheltron assuming you don't delay any autos for movement, Holy Spirit, etc. I haven't tanked anything in a bit so I don't remember exactly how much mitigation kite shields capped out at (28%?) but I expect Sheltron early on at least to be ~20% mitigation every 20 or so seconds.

edited because I'm retarded

[Shurrikhan]

To be blunt I have no sympathy for WAR players. I'm only really upset for DRK because they're getting shafted out of the blue, though I think most of us knew it was coming eventually.

That's just it though. Why would there be a "had it coming"? DRK has been desirable only as imbalanced fight design favored them by through increasedly weighing damage output and through the situationally massive advantage of a spare magic mitigation CD (e.g. A4S). That's a failure on the raid's part or in the critical issue of creating obvious niches of play or counterplay (e.g. anti-magic tank), not a failure to balance the job across a general variety of content. Even Paladin had fights that gave Shelltron power alike to an "exploit". So why is DRK being nerfed? And why now of all times?

They stated a desire to raise the functionality of the less generally desireable tanks towards their more desirable counterparts. Instead, one has made the others noncompetitive options, while actually reducing the intuitive, versatile, and flexible functionality of the job they were using as an example and gimping the output of another.

[eagledorf]

"had it coming"?

That's not what I meant at all, I meant many of us could see that SE has no ideas on how to rebalance the jobs other than making DRK suck in comparison to PLD. After all, on the defensive side DRK is basically PLD for magic instead of physical (and more buttons in 3.0)

Those of us who play both sort of knew that eventually this would happen, we certainly didn't think it was a good idea, just inevitable because the concept of PLD/DRK is so badly flawed.

[Shurrikhan]

That's not what I meant at all, I meant many of us could see that SE has no ideas on how to rebalance the jobs other than making DRK suck in comparison to PLD. After all, on the defensive side DRK is basically PLD for magic instead of physical (and more buttons in 3.0)

Those of us who play both sort of knew that eventually this would happen, we certainly didn't think it was a good idea, just inevitable because the concept of PLD/DRK is so badly flawed.

Ahh, understood now. My mistake.

Personally, even playing all three heavily, I never saw anything that I thought "you know, this is probably gonna get ****ed over next expansion." I guess I still had hope? Shame on me. Well, I have been proven wrong.